Need help between war and pld

[Venoshock]

Sauron must have been a WAR. He could fell cleave 6 enemies with each swing, and then die from one hit to the finger.

I want a WAR nerf so badly in 4.0 just to hear all the arrogant asshat warriors crying tears of unfathomable sadness.

'wa-warrior OP p-pls nerf'

[Venoshock]

They're essentially wasted as a main tank (and little more than an MP sink for healers once their cooldowns are gone). Keep in mind a lot of groups don't even bring an off tank anymore if there's no tank-swap mechanic, sooo you might have problems there. You will have to really practice where and when you need your cooldowns, because you don't have a lot, and using them inappropriately will reeeeally piss off your healers.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Warrior CDs can mitigate just fine and actually far better than paladins when it comes to magical mitigation. Thrill of the battle, storms path, vengeance, inner beast? that's 4 CDs, 2 more that mitigate magical damage better than paladin so technically warrior would be a better MT than paladin would in high magical damage fights like A12S.

stop spreading false information.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Warrior CDs can mitigate just fine and actually far better than paladins when it comes to magical mitigation. Thrill of the battle, storms path, vengeance, inner beast? that's 4 CDs, 2 more that mitigate magical damage better than paladin so technically warrior would be a better MT than paladin would in high magical damage fights like A12S.

stop spreading false information.

You're trying to tell me it doesn't take practice to manage your cooldowns? XD Darling I think you've been triggered and missed the bare bones of what I am saying, "You need to be not-amateur and practice your cooldown use more than the other 2 tanks." I'm sorry if the extra info confused you. ;3

And no, everyone and their dog agrees WAR is best off tank. In A12S the best groups bring a DRK for mt, not a WAR. :/

Just calm down, you sound like that crazy PLD on the last page.

Edit: also while rereading my post, I don't believe I said anywhere that WAR lacks mitigation. :O Simply that their higher damage in DPS stance gives them an advantage in off tank position that the other tanks don't get, so why the hell would you have WAR mt, and PLD ot??? <--this question is rhetorical btw.

[Venoshock]

You're trying to tell me it doesn't take practice to manage your cooldowns? XD Darling I think you've been triggered and missed the bare bones of what I am saying, "You need to be not-amateur and practice your cooldown use more than the other 2 tanks." I'm sorry if the extra info confused you. ;3

And no, everyone and their dog agrees WAR is best off tank. In A12S the best groups bring a DRK for mt, not a WAR. :/

Just calm down, you sound like that crazy PLD on the last page.

Edit: also while rereading my post, I don't believe I said anywhere that WAR lacks mitigation. :O Simply that their higher damage in DPS stance gives them an advantage in off tank position that the other tanks don't get, so why the hell would you have WAR mt, and PLD ot??? <--this question is rhetorical btw.

calm down? I'm not mad or anything lol Don't give yourself too much credit bub. I'm just saying it how it is.

I never said you should make warrior MT. i said warrior would make a better main tank than paladin would in magical damage fights like A12S if we're talking about mitigating magical damage over an extended amount of time. So you missed the point I made. It's cool though, it happens when you don't actually read things properly.

And in your reponse to your edit, I'm well aware of why warriors excel in the OT position than MT as I explained in my first post.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

calm down? I'm not mad or anything lol Don't give yourself too much credit bub. I'm just saying it how it is.

I never said you should make warrior MT. i said warrior would make a better main tank than paladin would in magical damage fights like A12S if we're talking about mitigating damage. So you missed the point I made. It's cool, though, it happens when you don't actually read things properly.

And in your reponse to your edit, I'm well aware of why warriors excel in the OT position than MT as I explained in my first post.

Then why reply to me at all? None of what you said had any relevance to my earlier points if you weren't arguing why WAR needs to be MT. I'm not going to go on a tangent because someone thinks one instance of WAR being mt is worth noting (since no group is gonna take PLD/WAR into A12S anyway, what point exactly were you trying to argue?), when my point is about the entire game. You accused me of spreading false info when I did no such thing. That smells of butthurt to me.

[Venoshock]

You accused me of spreading false info when I did no such thing. That smells of butthurt to me.

You might need to get your nose checked then :/

The false information you were spreading was:

They're essentially wasted as a main tank (and little more than an MP sink for healers once their cooldowns are gone). Keep in mind a lot of groups don't even bring an off tank anymore if there's no tank-swap mechanic, sooo you might have problems there. You will have to really practice where and when you need your cooldowns, because you don't have a lot, and using them inappropriately will reeeeally piss off your healers.

You were implying that warrior (as a class as in not individual players) is a MP sink for healers when they aren't at all when played properly just like the other two.

About groups not bringing an OT which creates problems that is exclusive to warriors? false...again. Warriors are fine and are actually the best tank to bring along if you have a ninja in your party so they aren't forced into using dancing edge which is a dps loss for them.

You made a statement that warriors don't have a lot of defensive cooldowns which is false yet again. Thrill of the battle, vengeance, inner beast, raw intuition, awareness and even foresight. That's far more than enough considering path alone.

So we've established that you can't comprehend what I've posted and can't even look at what you've posted.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

snip

And I've explained how you interpretted this "misinformation" wrong (the translation: "You need to be not-amateur and practice your cooldown use more than the other 2 tanks."). Good job ignoring the rest of my posts (the actual relevant parts), and cherry picking through so you don't have to address the bits you don't have answers for. But I'm not going to continue a conversation with an obvious troll. Good day to you ma'am. I will reply to people that're interested in a discussion and not a mindless argument built around calling people illiterate.

[Venoshock]

And I've explained how you interpretted this "misinformation" wrong (the translation: "You need to be not-amateur and practice your cooldown use more than the other 2 tanks."). Good job ignoring the rest of my posts (the actual relevant parts), and cherry picking through so you don't have to address the bits you don't have answers for. But I'm not going to continue a conversation with an obvious troll. Good day to you ma'am. I will reply to people that're interested in a discussion and not a mindless argument built around calling people illiterate.

I didn't interpret anything wrong as you've posted it there in black and white in which I responded point by point. In which you didn't come back with any refutations other than 'Good job ignoring the rest of my posts (the actual relevant parts), and cherry picking through so you don't have to address the bits you don't have answers for'. Care to point those out? Of course you can't because they're either irrelevant or false.

You then resort to do what every person does when they don't have an argument or a valid point to make - ad hominem - calling me a troll which I'm not. I'm just telling it how it is.

[Fluffernuff]

>calling out warriors for hiding behind the enemy whilst defending a class that cowers behind shields

apply yourself.

Oh sweetie. You poor thing. I never gave you guys the credit of standing behind the enemy. That would imply you wanted to be withing slapping range. It's ok. There's still room behind my shield, even with your other friends.

Darling, you need to go sit in a corner for a few seconds until you can sound less insane. Unless of course you're trolling on purpose, in which case: well done. They seem to be falling for it. /clap

(guys, her main says DRK, as much as I love PLDs I doubt she actually means the BS she's spouting. For shame taking such obvious bait!).

Pretty much. I don't get why anyone thought I've actually been serious at this point. It's almost as if I struck a nerve. Most people don't take offense to something blatantly false... it's almost as if calling the OT slot scared children is actually true! I still don't think calling out WARs for hiding behind the other tanks is so bad compared to saying "PLD cowers behind their shield." It feels like I'm not allowed to play the exaggerated game anymore.

It's pretty hilarious how "the best tanks" are so easily tanked.

blind, mindless wrath

Um... # of cooldowns actually means very little when it comes to the MT slot. It's what the cooldowns do, for how long, and what they accomplish. This is why DRK has to rely on Living Dead as another cooldown while PLD generally doesnt need to use hallowed in the same situations.

For starters, it's obvious to everyone that WAR can operate in the MT role. But let's actually explain why they aren't common.

1) They are superior in the OT slot because they bring the Storm combos. Storm combos don't stack with eachother, so bringing multiple doesn't help.
1b) WAR would have more chances to shine in the MT slot, but both PLD and DRK lack the same utility WAR does in the OT slot. they both need to be getting hit, where WAR doesn not.

2) stacking classes limits the speed the Limit Break bar fills. Stacking Classes isn't worth it in most cases, if it can be avoided.

3) WARs precious "best DPS" doesn't apply to the MT role, that "honor" actually goes to DRK.

4) WARs cooldowns, specifically Inner Beast, require precision for fights that the other 2 don't require. a higher skill requirement for the same result isn't exactly desirable. To elaborate, Inner Beast blocks 1 thing: the tank buster. Rampart blocks the tank buster, the auto after, and the mechanic after that.
This could actually help WAR fill the MT slot better with the cross-class overhaul we are getting


Shock and surprise, MT and OT choices goes a little deeper than just "damage" or "cooldowns". Hallowed ground is an amazing cooldown, but you don't use it pre-pull, and you dont stack it with rampart.

[CafPow]

1) They are superior in the OT slot because they bring the Storm combos. Storm
combos don't stack with eachother, so bringing multiple doesn't help.
1b) WAR would have more chances to shine in the MT slot, but both PLD and DRK lack the same utility WAR does in the OT slot. they both need to be getting hit, where WAR doesn not.

So ... did i miss a Patch?
Storm combos are not available anymore when MT-ing?

2) stacking classes limits the speed the Limit Break bar fills. Stacking Classes isn't worth it in most cases, if it can be avoided.

absolutely agreed.

3) WARs precious "best DPS" doesn't apply to the MT role, that "honor" actually goes to DRK.

why though?
it's not that, you're not able to swap into Ofstance while Maintanking. Again ...
am i missing a patch here?

4) WARs cooldowns, specifically Inner Beast, require precision for fights that the other 2 don't require. a higher skill requirement for the same result isn't exactly desirable. To elaborate, Inner Beast blocks 1 thing: the tank buster. Rampart blocks the tank buster, the auto after, and the mechanic after that.
This could actually help WAR fill the MT slot better with the cross-class overhaul we are getting

you think?
let's think about it. You can stack up 12 Seconds of inner Beast, ignoring Vengeance and all the other cool Things a WAR brings, and then, if he survives, he can heal himself up with Equilibrium or ... just do nothing and still has more EH than every other Tank. The Tankmechanic of WAR is just "bring it all" ... a lot to heal thouh

Shock and surprise, MT and OT choices goes a little deeper than just "damage" or "cooldowns". Hallowed ground is an amazing cooldown, but you don't use it pre-pull, and you dont stack it with rampart.

Hallowed Ground and Raising Death go 10 seconds while Holmgang does 6... that's also a big Thing here.

Nobody actually things that PLDs or DRKs are Weaker. As a common "Rule of Thumb" one could say
Magical Damage: DRK > WAR > PLD
Physical Damage: PLD > WAR > DRK
this, while WAR is bringing real good support.
DRK is doing pretty fine though, PLDS needs a nice push.

besides:
since the hole Content is "muh DPS" there is a Weak Spot when not delivering DPS. Why should anyone Raid with PLD / DRK when he can has WAR / DRK?