Why are summoners so neglected?

[Tsukino]

I don't think "neglected" is the right word, but it's certainly not designed around summoning. The job plays totally fine, it does amazing damage, it just never feels much like a Summoner.

Many of the ideas here (and other threads like it) would be welcome changes. More egis, more egi glamours, more emphasis on the egis, animations for the summoner abilities that include summoning (like Ultima does, or like Yuna in Dissidia), temporary transformation/replacement with a summon - any of these things would go a long way in making the job feel more like a Summoner and not a poison mage with one DoT that floats and glows off to the side.

[alimdia]

To wield the power of primals yourself, you move farther than "summoner" and closer to this guy:

I can't agree, you should give older FF titles a try to see how summoners played back then. And I never said the player should transform into the primal.

[Ama_Hamada]

Between 10 job exclusive spells (5 from ARR and 5 from HW), they could've added more summons, but at this point I'll accept even being separated from scholar if it meansI'll finally get my Leviathan.

As said like the quote I quoted, I am positive it has something to do with it. They feel restricted and it is like some wall that is sitting there to give it a good work around to let us be true summoners. They seem to lack creativity to work around the sharing balance issues or simply really considering spiliting them. regardless I still find it funny how FFXI stayed more true the nature and not a DoT mage.

Unless something changed drastically since I quit halfway through WotG, I don't think XI's SMN would be very well received here. XI's SMN was treated as a glorified healer that only brought out Avatars just long enough to cast a Pact before dismissing them again. Though now that I think about it, that's how the Summoner is typically portrayed throughout most of its different iterations in other Final Fantasy games: occasionally bringing out a summon for a big, expensive spell (that often times had RNG elements if you weren't using it with specific items or abilities) and otherwise they spent the rest of their time acting as support.

Early on that happened because they had no DPS, it is worse then a MCH DPSing only in wildfire but that be a good idea how it was. You gave mediocre burst damage every literal minute that could be mimicked by one spell from a BLM. So to give summoners a use in a party vs none at all, they could do the weak burst damage then heal as they wait for something to do.

In FFXIV, 1.0 ideas a summoner could do that only instead of having the filler be healing, it could been magic DPS from THM and its own. This was helped by the fact personal stat effected damage where for SMN in FFXI it did not for a long time till they gave -BP gear and have summoning skill effect damage. It changed a lot but there was still too much downtime making it a heal assist during downtimes.

[Ririta]

I can't agree, you should give older FF titles a try to see how summoners played back then. And I never said the player should transform into the primal.

The point is the difference between "commanding primals" and "wielding their power". "That guy" is literally us right now - focusing on wielding the power of demons instead of commanding demons. The transformation is a bonus.

As for older summoners... I'm well aware; I wouldn't mind either way as long as we move away from having only the three ARR primals, though I personally prefer a pet based gameplay.

[BigRed5392]

This is only partially true, you're not telling the whole story. SMN/WHM was popular as an exp party role, but SMN damage was very popular at HNMs for it's extremely safe low-TP build damage.

My LS of the day, along with pretty much every HNMLS on the server, would bring SMNs for Garuda's Predator Claws on Jormungand and Tiamat, among many others.

never got into hnm because of all the drama. still never saw avatar used during runs i did see.

still most times i played it (14 characters) it was heal or /kick.

[Ama_Hamada]

never got into hnm because of all the drama. still never saw avatar used during runs i did see.

still most times i played it (14 characters) it was heal or /kick.

I explained why, and it is no different then healers should dps here. You simply have too large downtime and SMN on HMNs was in old ffxi. After tons of buffs and such people just burned the crap out of everything with melee DPS doing SV 3 brd rotations. MNK fully buffed by 3 brds (and sometimes a cor on top of that for good measure, or 2 brds and a cor) was flippin insane with hundred fists, and even more so if you had a pocket heal with souleater, lamo.

[Alerion]

never got into hnm because of all the drama. still never saw avatar used during runs i did see.

still most times i played it (14 characters) it was heal or /kick.

Well then your opinion on it is pretty incomplete. I did hardcore FFXI endgame, we're talking get up at 3 am because a king's window was opening. It's a little misleading to flat out claim summoners didn't summon when they were extremely popular for that reason in FFXI's endgame.

That said, you're right about their position in exp parties, they were basically just healers there.

[Rysir]

May not be neglected but from playing only summoner since I started till halfway through heavensward and see the summoner - summon interaction not change at all Im finally wearing down and considering permanently dropping it for red mage. The egis are extremely stale.

With the craptons of power the summoner itself holds Id almost expect 5.0 to introduce a trait or skill that sacrifices the ability to summon for more power.

[Duelle]

Just remove all the skills from smn, give it summon, and rouse, and spur. enkindle
and 18 summons that only have an auto attack and the enkindle ability.

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but let's try to make something useful out of your post.

Let's establish some rules first. 6 "main" egis that represent the elemental wheel (nothing to do with elemental affinities; this is more for thematic reasons). You get Ifrit-egi (melee pet), Garuda-egi (caster pet), Titan-egi (tank pet), Leviathan-egi (anti-caster pet), Shiva-egi (CC pet), Ramuh-egi (AoE/damage aura pet). Gain abilities that allow you to temporarily call upon egi beyond that (Ravana-egi, Bismarck-egi), and a skill that allows you to summon more than one egi (this would be a DPS cooldown). An aetherflow skill that lets you quickly switch to a new egi (on a 45s cooldown). Throw in pets dealing greater damage on targets affected by your DoTs, a couple of skills that deal with pets (an Aetherflow skill that temporarily increases damage dealt by your active egi), and you have a decent starting point.

[Kaethra]

so they function exactly the same? why does SMN get multiple animations for the same attack?

Why not?

And give a reason not motivated by envy or jealousy.