Request to unlock Hempen set styles

[Kosmos992k]

sorry, but no. If you wanna wear a dress designed for females, play a female char. This is not a dragqueen game.

I guess my kilt should be mothballed and put into storage then?

As much as I complain - and I DO complain - about crappy unisex metal armor with fake abs and forcing female figures into male looking armor, it's really wrong to throw in things like 'dragqueen game'. I mean yes, male characters who want to dress as females probably would be better off fantasia into a female in many circumstances. But on the other hand, we should not get so worked up over styles of dress such as males wearing something that is conventionally thought of as a dress. There are plenty of garments worn by males in human society that if you looked at them fit the description skirts, dresses and blouses. For example, the full regalia worn by men in Scotland to a more traditional wedding includes a pleated plaid skirt, lace-ruffle blouse, hose and a fitted jacket.


(P.S. don't call him a girl....)

Look at India with the various male outfits featuring Kurtas;


Bedouin men in North Africa...


Let's not forget Japan...


Now, yes, I get what you're saying, you would not expect men to be wearing outfits like those shown below (except for Ritsuko's one - far right);


But it's not too far of a leap from the traditional outfits I posted examples of, to things that would immediately strike people as traditionally female. Take each of those outfits the men are wearing above, and recolor with Pink and various pastel tones, it's amazing what a change in color can do to how an outfit is perceived.

In the end, it comes down to cultural norms and how far you can stretch them before some people become uneasy because what they are seeing is too far from their own cultural norms. However, if the men's wear I posted above was made in a nice shade of rose pink, you' have to accept that it's the same outfit, but a different color. I can't imagine anyone getting bent out of shape by color selection for clothing. So if we accept the rose pink looks, what if there are a few bows and a flower as well? That kilt outfit that Sean Connery is wearing would be an interesting look in pink, and a pink rose with heather for his lapel.

Now, I agree that players with male characters who want to wear a maid dress for example, would probably be better off using a fantasia to go female if they prefer female clothing. But it's not really as cut and dried as you say, and it's only my opinion, which should not matter at all in terms of another player's selection of clothes or gender. And of course, neither should yours, so why be so confrontational about the matter?

One more thought, should we start referring to female characters in male clothing as "drag kings"? For the love of the Twelve I hope not. I bet we don't hear many female characters being told to fantasia back to male to wear male clothing - because it's ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous whichever way round you play it.

[Faliandra]

snip

You know, I feel our opinions on this arent too far off tbh, maybe I did come across more bigoted than I am.
I am very well aware of many different cultural dresses, so there was really no need to show me those pictures, really lol
They are essentially gowns for males. And I would never think of a samurai gown as girlish, for example.

Well, scottish kilts certainly arent my favorite, but I still completely respect this as a cultural way to dress, it is VERY specific though
and only gets worn in specific way....but knowing people here, they would mix and match it in an inappropriate way I no longer
can justify as a cultural way to dress.


My personal eyesore is when people exactly try to do THIS to a male character:



Yes, it feels like they wanna dress up their male characters to look extremely girly...and I only stepped in here when they suggested
to unlock a FEMALE WEDDING GOWN. This is like a prime example of a VERY specific VERY special woman's attire and is on the same level
as that anime picture.

It does NOT fit the game, its bad enough as it is. It's a mood breaker. Game Immersion is the key word there. That's why im confrontational about it.
I do not RP, but I care about the game environment and I like to keep an MMORPG world classy to a specific extent. This exceeds it by far.


edit: definition of dragqueen:

"A drag queen is a person, usually male, who dresses in drag and often acts with exaggerated femininity and in feminine gender roles."

a man wearing a wedding gown is exactly that. Calling something by its name is not an insult, its a fact...but Political Correctness is making us feel bad about it, which is BS.
And yes, if a female dressed excessively male, you can call them drag kings.
But currently, the game hardly allows this, which is fine. It shouldnt. Same goes for overly girlish males. Play a female if you like it so much.

[Kosmos992k]

Yes, it feels like they wanna dress up their male characters to look extremely girly...and I only stepped in here when they suggested
to unlock a FEMALE WEDDING GOWN. This is like a prime example of a VERY specific VERY special woman's attire and is on the same level
as that anime picture.

It does NOT fit the game, its bad enough as it is. It's a mood breaker. Game Immersion is the key word there. That's why im confrontational about it.
I do not RP, but I care about the game environment and I like to keep an MMORPG world classy to a specific extent. This exceeds it by far.

OK, I do agree that wedding gowns in particular are really specific to females. I completely understand where you are coming from. But it's not something I'm prepared to be confrontational over. On the other hand you mention a mood breaker and game immersion. Tanks with a snowman head and beachwear are not breaking immersion? I'm sure you would agree that they are. I would suggest that they are far more immersion breaking than a male character wearing a traditionally female outfit since you can rationalize that the character is having gender issues and is exploring their female side.

BTW, my best man at my wedding was dressed in exactly the same traditional Scottish wedding outfit that I was wearing all the way down to the Sgian-dubh worn in the hose. Of course, *she* looked wonderful in the outfit, as did her husband (also in the same gear), my wife wore a traditional wedding gown. No one questioned the choice of my best friend to be my best 'man' despite her gender, and no one questioned her dressing in the traditionally male outfit. It wasn't immersion breaking for the guests. I guess I just feel that this is one of those things that really isn't going to benefit from vigorous debate.

[Serilda]

It does NOT fit the game, its bad enough as it is. It's a mood breaker. Game Immersion is the key word there. That's why im confrontational about it.
I do not RP, but I care about the game environment and I like to keep an MMORPG world classy to a specific extent. This exceeds it by far.

Right, but the game already has multiple dresses which would work for a wedding, and they're not only wearable by males, they are often the only option for males at that particular level of content. The Void Ark gown. The Swansgrace set. The WHM/AST AF2 (AST's was specifically designed to look womanly, while the legs on the WHM set alone would make many real-world brides green with envy). We got a cute dyeable glamour miniskirt in a patch last year. Your immersion is already at breaking point if you're in denial at all of this skirt potential open to male characters, so at what point did it suddenly lurch over into unreasonable territory to insinuate that if female characters wanted to get their hands on yet another piece of relatively masculine gear, I'd expect some basic reciprocation? Nobody is forcing you to come to my server and look at me against your will. If you want things classy, maybe we should also block female Miqo'te from running around in bikinis and force everyone to dress in lore-appropriate ways at all times?

At least you're consistent in that you don't want girls to have anything either ^^;