Harassing Healers - or: Please allow Parsers

[BigRed5392]

Both healers? What does she play? There is rare cases where people will not raise grief if they are not doing enough dps or something. Regardless are you in my data center? I have no issues talking as I play, that's another thing, a lot of people are not good at that. So are we on same data center and play times?

She mains drk, And yes goblin is on Aether. She plays roughly all day everyday because she is mostly at home, and unable to go anywhere due to disabilities, and i haven't had the time/money to get my house key copied yet. We was playing on tonberry till we took a few 6-8 mnth break, and due to my jobs we switched to goblin. We are used to more organized runs. We also are on ps4, we don't own mics. So it typing not physical talking. She doesn't play well while being on a mic.

Pretty much in Weeping city, she was unsure her role as the a tank in her group. I think she was group A. Her group was all over the place, and no one was giving her pointers. She die from damage either by accident, or trying to keep up. And neither healer was doing much (rarely saw cast bars) and the dps were not giving her a chance to tank. One time during the part where tanks get a meteor, she accidentally fell off. And no one raised her. (she wasn't mad by then she was in tears from falling off since it was a mistake that she could prevented)

No, must dps? hell no.

I dps when I am able, this means if the tank is a mp sponge or I need to carry other parties in "raids" (like dun seems people have issues calling places like that raids) I will not DPS because I can't, no room to do so. Always casting.. if always casting means heals or mass raises well then it is the others fault that stand in bad or whatever that I can't dps now isn't it?

Also thinking letting the tank go under 50% is an issue... if it is something say expert or heck lore farm in library, it is not an issue, and AST/WHM that want to dps lets tank hit low levels so they can be healed by abilities to make more room for DPS. For SCH though it depends, because we use stacks for our dps and heavy healing. My goal is to cast my 3 dots and bane. What I do after depends on the tank HP. If it is super low I use my stacks to heal them, if not ill use other aoes then heal them with normal spells. You really don't want to let people get super low as SCH though due to how we have stacks for our heavy healing. Then there are other times pet can heal everything so SCH stays in cleric permanently.

I can't tell you who is in the wrong but I will say this, simply "tank used cd properly" is not enough, was it TIMED?!?! well? i/e popping it when there is predictable heavy damage incoming?

Pretty much ya, my g/f is pretty good at using her buffs. @ pull she will use her first drk buff, bloodbath and if needed convalescence. midway fights with big stuff she will use her bigger buffs. She had multiple lvl 60 tank characters.

My opinion is healers should focus on healing, not focus on dps. Keep group alive regardless of who/what rather then being vindictive as your role is to heal not deal damage. If no one needs a cure, (as in everyone is topped off) then sure deal out a bit. using abilities to make more room to dps imo the wrong way to play. Again this is just my personal opinion.

When my g/f plays healer, she keeps everyone @ 90% while dpsing. (she hates healboting)

When you focus on dpsing, it makes it seem like you don't trust your dps to do their job and doing it for them. Which has a negative impact on dps players. How often do you see/hear dps causing slow runs? Outside the parser argument saying bs about "ice mages" (which in my years playing i never seen one)


My other opinion is, refusing to raise heal a player doesn't help them learn anything. Being silent, doesn't help either. My g/f watched the videos you linked and still not sure what to do as a tank, as mtq was a caster, in said video. With no consensus on which group does what, things become confusing.

What i was trying to get across, is how stressful the NA community is making the game for others. More so with arbitrary rules over play styles, and hate mongering because of it. My g/f left weeping city crying her eyes out thinking she was the worst tank in the world. And she doesn't cry over playing games. She is just getting tired of trying her best, and it not be good enough for people. And tired of being insulted because no one gives her the time to do things. (and she isn't slow just others are faster).

When my g/f sees her hp low(50% or under), she gets anxiety and stress because she thinks it was her fault. Add that to the performance stress and it just built up to her leaving a 24-man raid in tears.

Anyway. I hope what i said was clear.

[Ama_Hamada]

lets make a pf ssometime

[BigRed5392]

lets make a pf sometime

well i get to use a recent party as an example to clarify what she goes through:

ya , G/f just got /votekick outa a dungeon. She got the library normal in lvling R. The healer, an ast, puts aspected benefict on her which was the regen the second the barrier dropped. She turns it off they get protected and she goes to pull. The ast all of a sudden spams regen, this confuses my g/f but she assumes it was an accident, but to be sure she asked "umm why are you spamming regen". Healer claimed she turned off the day stance and regen didn't apply. (my g.f saw her regen count down restart 3 times)

My g/f pointed this out stating "but i saw my regen counter restart 3 times" again assuming this was an accident, (my g/f had a lvl 60 ast on an alt). And said that aspected bene was regen (not assuming ast didn't know) the AST then started to give a attitude, asking if it was a problem and my g/f said no issue, just trying to ask a question. Then asked the AST why they are having an attitude, AST claim my g/f was rude, which my g.f replied she wasn't trying to be rude, just asking a question out of confusion.

AST attitude was telling her to stfu, to drop it. And the AST was not healing her. My g/f was poping CD, but her hp hit 8% in the next pull. (she was avoiding aoes as well). to just pull as she was getting annoyed. (my g/f just asked her why they spammed regen and why was the ast giving her an attitude)

the last pull (my g/f was hesitant to pull after that.) She was asking why is it an issue to ask a question, that she assumed it was an accident, asking why is asking a question considered a crime (in no way did my g/f insult the healer, and tried to votekick the healer) on the doll/4 book pull the healer was spamming regen and doing spells to drain their mp. My g/f is watching her hp bar drop and was doing her best to use her CD. Most were used on the pull before because of the AST not curing my g/f.

So my g/f died and the AST blamed her, she ordered my g/f be kicked for purposely dying, ( my g/f was doing her best to stay alive using dark arts abysmal drain to self cure) She called my g/f a liar for not using cd, claiming to have been spam curing my g/f. (my g/.f doesn't die on purpose) And told her she wasn't cured. ( i watched she wasn't) the group kicked out my g/f.


now picture that happening roughly 3 times a day, 7 days a week for the few mnths. that pretty much the stuff my g/f deals with.

[LadyAveria]

My g/f left weeping city crying her eyes out thinking she was the worst tank in the world. And she doesn't cry over playing games. She is just getting tired of trying her best, and it not be good enough for people. And tired of being insulted because no one gives her the time to do things. (and she isn't slow just others are faster).

When my g/f sees her hp low(50% or under), she gets anxiety and stress because she thinks it was her fault. Add that to the performance stress and it just built up to her leaving a 24-man raid in tears.

awwwww...that makes me sad, I will heal you GF tanky! You can take all the time you need to learn things.

[Taika]

now picture that happening roughly 3 times a day, 7 days a week for the few mnths. that pretty much the stuff my g/f deals with.

It's not normal to get kicked this much, to be honest. I've been playing this game since 1.0 and have been kicked a grand total of one time (because I was pointing out the lack of DPS from 2 bards in Longstop Hard back when it had just come out and they didn't appreciate that ). All the people I play with practically never get kicked either. So if she truly gets kicked 3 times a day, maybe try to see the common factor in all those kicks (= her) instead of insisting on placing the blame on everyone else.

[Fluffernuff]

This old song and dance again?

I don't really feel like digging up my old response on the matter, so...


A parser, at best, should only be implemented in the content it is relevant in the people it's relevant for. Raids, PF runs/farms, and EX primals.

DF is not to be underestimated for it's stupidity and lack of self control, and not only that... seeing that magical big numbers of yours helps... what in your leveling roulette in Haukke? Knowing you have more DPS than the dead sproutling in that titan HM achieves.. what? How much are you improving?

Parsers only have a benefit to those who "require" them. This means raiders, statics, party finder, and stretching it to dummy tests for benchmarks. You can keep it far far away from the abuse DF will find a way to do. They do it well enough without it. Parsers have a place, but not nearly to the extent I see it demanded for...

On the topic of harrassment... healers. I'm not the one who will demand that you must DPS. Yet, if you're standing, dancing, or jumping around in AoE, then perhaps you could realize where the ire is coming from? Maybe?
There needs to be a certain level of guilt recognition from ALL parties involved. DPS should probably keep themselves in mind before they starting throwing their perceived weight around. Some of the healers I witness probably wouldn't hurt after some reflection, either.

Personally, I'm happy if everyone can, AT LEAST, fulfill their job description at a basic level. well, not HAPPY, but I won't ragequit. If I can complete a pull within 1 set of defensive cooldowns, that's.. acceptable DPS. If I'm at least topped off and I'm not frantically pressing shadowskin in the hopes my HP would stop falling, the Healer is probably ok. Sure, more can be done, but such things arent going to send me on a monitor chucking spree... and certainly isn't worth causing the outbursts we fill the DF thread with

[Tint]

This old song and dance again?

yeah, it seems so... it's awesome how nobody get what i was trying to say... c.c

i just wanted to point out the double morale of the FF14 team, because there IS harassment against healers right here in the official forum. and nothing happens against it. but at the same time they say they don't allow parsers because they could be used to harass DD's...

but however, you can debate about healer dps yes or no as long as you wish i guess...

[BigRed5392]

It's not normal to get kicked this much, to be honest. I've been playing this game since 1.0 and have been kicked a grand total of one time (because I was pointing out the lack of DPS from 2 bards in Longstop Hard back when it had just come out and they didn't appreciate that ). All the people I play with practically never get kicked either. So if she truly gets kicked 3 times a day, maybe try to see the common factor in all those kicks (= her) instead of insisting on placing the blame on everyone else.

I didn't mean to convey she gets 3 times a day. but people are that rude to her. When she is kick, it is because she is an easier target. They assume she is rude based on her typing from what I can tell. She is not a bad person and only ask questions if confused by something.

But the whole "if you are surrounded by mean people, and you're the consent, it means you're the mean person" has a few out-liners. As in there are exceptions to that and people just end up with mean players. Idk if you can tell based on these forums, but NA community is kinda vindictive, and are a "kick first" ask why later type. If you don't experienced getting kick, good for you. Your lucky. (not being snarky) My GF has trouble communicating and when she ask question people assume she is being rude. No matter how she tried to clarify herself people jump the gun, and just label her as rude.

She had another experience like this, in a lowbie dungeon with a new player and their friends. the New players was hitting different targets and my g/f told them if they attack the same target stuff dies faster. The 2 friends assumed she was being rude, and started to be snarky in the dungeon.
She started to notice the new person would stop attacking in between mobs, and simply ask "why do you stop attacking between mob?". Again is very confused and trying to help. The 2 friends just trash on my g.f, and starts to ask why they are being rude, as my g/f is just confused and not doing anything wrong.

She wasn't insulting the new player, she wasn't swearing, nor name calling. Yet they kept digging into her.

I group up with her, as well as live with her, and she is not a mean person. She just get stressed out easy when dealing with others due to anxiety from her ASD. But she isn't mean. And she tries to do what people want of her, unless my g/f knows she can't do something but is polite about it.

My guess is she gets teamed up with people who are stressed out over these arbitrary rules players make up, and they take it out on others. Or runs into people who are the ones that enforce these rules, and is unable to please them, which these players get impatient and vindictive.

So instead of assume this stuff isn't normal based on your experiences, try to ask questions.

Assumption is how people get kicked from duties.

[BigRed5392]

yeah, it seems so... it's awesome how nobody get what i was trying to say... c.c

i just wanted to point out the double morale of the FF14 team, because there IS harassment against healers right here in the official forum. and nothing happens against it. but at the same time they say they don't allow parsers because they could be used to harass DD's...

but however, you can debate about healer dps yes or no as long as you wish i guess...

they used the "harassment" to skirt around the real reason, which is they don't want people to reverse engineer it with act. Harassment is part of it, but this would open the gates to people knowing the true state weights, and algorithms . Everything we know is based on unproven theorycrafting, and if we find out the real stuff it would break the game.

[Belhi]

I think a personal passer is a necessity that they are going to have to end up adding eventually. Demand for it is never going to go away. Frankly the tutorial systems in the game (mentor system and Hall of Novice) would benefit from some expansion too to help players master the more complicated aspects of their Job and of fights. Even if it was a case of showing what particular markers represent.

As for healing, honestly I dps as a healer cause I find it boring not to but I am not going to kick a healer unless they are actually letting people die. Frankly if a healer has so much down time that they are standing around for long periods it makes me question if the healing mechanics are sufficiently developed. Healing should be an alternate play style with a full time role, not a part time dps. If a player really wants to dps there are a lot of Jobs far more suited for the role and with actual interesting rotations rather than the godly boring rotations healers have.