Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

partial snip-Refusing to DPS is not a play style anymore than a Bard refusing to sing or a Dark Knight keeping Darkside off to converse MP is. Is it not fair they expect the same from their healers?

I rarely see bards sing anyway and i can't tell the difference. It's not even needed most of the time. And just to open another can of worms and dump it all over the floor to be smeared around with the already ridiculous healer dps back and forth going on, the vast majority of tanks I play with don't stance dance either. They stay purely in tank stance and that's it. Works just fine unless there's a tank swap involved, which there rarely is, so I don't see the problem with tanks not stance dancing either. Yes I believe healers should be able to stand around and not dps if they want as long as they keep everyone alive and tanks and dps should just sea with it. If they want to stand around too then they should roll healer.

TL;DR I'm fine with others putting forth the bare minimum and playing the game casually. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.

[Freyt]

They stay purely in tank stance and that's it.

You know, I'm fine with my tank staying purely in an attack stance, just as long as it doesn't result in a wipe or a KO. I hold out as long as possible before I tell my tank to switch to their aggro stance. If we can progress either way, then I'll let them play how they want. It'll be an interesting experience at least, and they're more likely to willingly listen to me to begin with if it's already after things have gone wrong.

The only time I really expect my team to put up or shut up is something that really requires you to put forth that amount of effort.

[Kit-Kat]

I rarely see bards sing anyway and i can't tell the difference. It's not even needed most of the time. And just to open another can of worms and dump it all over the floor to be smeared around with the already ridiculous healer dps back and forth going on, the vast majority of tanks I play with don't stance dance either. They stay purely in tank stance and that's it. Works just fine unless there's a tank swap involved, which there rarely is, so I don't see the problem with tanks not stance dancing either. Yes I believe healers should be able to stand around and not dps if they want as long as they keep everyone alive and tanks and dps should just sea with it. If they want to stand around too then they should roll healer.

TL;DR I'm fine with others putting forth the bare minimum and playing the game casually. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.

By giving them a pat on the back for being lazy you're just promoting it, but then everyone complains when the norm is to be as lazy as you can, refusing to improve and getting rejected/kicked from parties because people expected more than you've been whiteknighted for before that point. 24 man easy raids being a complete chaos wipefest because why would I care, 23 other people will work for it (or so they think). Oh those filthy elites asking to skip soar! my icemage rotation won't work there, how could they! they're not teaching new players!

[BigRed5392]

snip

ice mages don't exist, Stop using that as an argument. No one is promoting laziness... Promoting harassment is not good. I rather people focus on their main role instead of near wiping other going beyond. I've seen lazy healers who just dps.

Hate to say, but 24 man raids are a wipe fest because of disorganization. No one leads, people don't communicate. There is no set way to do it.

good players are the people who do their role well:healers healing and raising people, tanks tanking, dps dealing damage.

imo the "moar dps" is more of a lazy mindset then "healers should dps" mindset is.

Sorry but please take a step back and re-read this, as it is a lame reply, that comes off as vindictive.

[Misutoraru]

Healers should dps when they can. When they can is determined solely by the healer and their familiarity level and comfortability with the content in question.

Healers not dpsing is in no way comparable to dps not dodging aoe. Healers have to dodge that aoe too while doing their job (healing), just like dps has to dodge while doing their job (dps).

There's valid arguments to be made on why healers should dps, but this is not one of them.

if everyone in this community have good mindset like you do, 99% of healer dps thread will not exist
but instead
many people just jump into the ship of healer dont dps = lazy

[Taika]

many people just jump into the ship of healer dont dps = lazy

"Many people" you are just making up for your argument's sake. People are only asking for healers to DPS when they are able to do so. People are only calling healers lazy when they simply refuse to DPS and instead choose to do nothing (useful) at all when they would be able to use that time being helpful.

[Kit-Kat]

ice mages don't exist, Stop using that as an argument. No one is promoting laziness... Promoting harassment is not good. I rather people focus on their main role instead of near wiping other going beyond. I've seen lazy healers who just dps.

Icemages do exist, just not as often. I would have used another term, but now that would have upset many people. Yes, they're promoting laziness by defending lazy gameplay insead of accepting criticism. Who is promoting harassment? Or a better question, what do you consider as harassment? Calling someone out is not harassment, depending on how they do it though.

Hate to say, but 24 man raids are a wipe fest because of disorganization. No one leads, people don't communicate. There is no set way to do it.

24 man raids are a mess because people are careless as it's a zergfest and other people will pick up the slack, ignoring every mechanic. Not even talking about newbies here. You don't need communication nor someone leading you to dodge a red and blatant telegraph or ignoring repeated dungeon/raids mechanics, which is just common mechanics in basically through the entire game.

good players are the people who do their role well:healers healing and raising people, tanks tanking, dps dealing damage.

Good players are the one that take time to optimize the maximum of their kit, no matter the role depending on the situation. If you decide to ignore your job's skills when you have nothing else to do but stand still and dance just because of a role name, you're doing it wrong.

imo the "moar dps" is more of a lazy mindset then "healers should dps" mindset is.

When everything is based on making an enemy's HP reach 0, how is "moar dps mindset" lazy? I'm really curious what your term of being lazy is, after all your posts mentioning it.

[Misutoraru]

"Many people" you are just making up for your argument's sake. People are only asking for healers to DPS when they are able to do so. People are only calling healers lazy when they simply refuse to DPS and instead choose to do nothing (useful) at all when they would be able to use that time being helpful.

ya, because if everyone have the understanding it is at the healer feeling comfortable to do dmg,
most of this thread will never exist
yes, i m being exaggerate, because in almost every-single Healer dps thread
I have nicely, and kindly explain it is the healer, could be no confidence on party, could be the healer not enough experience with the dungeon mechanics, or simply the not well equip enough for doing dps and healing together in big pull
for example my AST is just il233, I have to focus on healing all the time in expert run when tank always do big pull, and AOE become messy (AOE circle block the mob) in Sohm Al HM
I have try so hard to deliver such message, since I believe most of these kind of argument come from DF, as in PF you set your own rules
instead, my message never seem to getting through

[RosaLunaCelestia]

Playing Tank sometimes. I really dont care if the healer dps or not :3 im learning to do good packs in all roulet dongeon , i always hope healer(s) not forget to take off dps mode :x

[KarstenS]

DPS is only there for damage.

...and more than 90% of them are failing very hard on this. What a stupid discussion.