As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Im not sure you read my recent posts. That refusal, is stopping a wipe in which case no one gets through the instance not just one player. Its a wipe if I dont heal. Not sure why thats hard to understand?

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about doing both either

[Feyona]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about doing both either

well is this a joke? Because isnt it obvious if people need healing you cant dps at the same time? Or can you do both at once and then Im missing some special skill that allows you to heal and dps at the same moment of time. Please get real, last night I did practice run on a10s with new healer. Between rezzing I was solo healing or is that some scenario that doesnt exist because its my experience? Just please try it youself and then come back and tell me how you blazed through it with your dps

[Taika]

well is this a joke? Because isnt it obvious if people need healing you cant dps at the same time? Or can you do both at once and then Im missing some special skill that allows you to heal and dps at the same moment of time.

All regens (including Asylum) tick while you're DPSing.
Fairy heals (including Whispering Dawn) can be used while you're DPSing.
Assize heals and does DPS simultaneously.
And the other way around: your DoTs keep ticking while you're healing.

Furthermore, all healers have instant cast heals that can be swiftly used between DPS spells - and Benediction even while in Cleric Stance.

[Feyona]

All regens (including Asylum) tick while you're DPSing.
Fairy heals (including Whispering Dawn) can be used while you're DPSing.
Assize heals and does DPS simultaneously.
And the other way around: your DoTs keep ticking while you're healing.

Furthermore, all healers have instant cast heals that can be swiftly used between DPS spells - and Benediction even while in Cleric Stance.

Yes and I have infinite space and mana inbetween rezes right? And theres so little mechanics there that I can do the manderville as well

[Taika]

Yes and I have infinite space and mana inbetween rezes right? And theres so little mechanics there that I can do the manderville as well

You don't have space for your vital abilities like regens, Asylum or fairy skills (not forgetting your DPS abilities)? Then there's your problem, they're kind of essential for playing the job. Here's my SCH action bars, for example:



This includes everything I can possibly need in a fight. For WHM and AST it's similar but I don't need the side bars for pet abilities. Middle row is 1, 2, 3 etc., top row same with Ctrl and bottom row same with Shift (I use middle and bottom row through my MMO mouse though).

And there's no reason whatsoever to bring up the raise argument which is in no way related to what you or I commented (our topic of discussion here was healing and DPSing at the same time). But, if you're doing nothing but raising, then obviously you have bigger issues with your group and should not worry about DPS until people are able to survive a part of the fight in the first place. Also, if you find yourself running out of MP for reasons not related to yourself (like inefficient use of healing abilities or lack of using MP regenerating abilities whenever they're up), ask for your BRD or MCH to help with that (usually all groups run with at least one of either). If you have a SMN, they do in fact have a practically unlimited MP pool, so they may help with raises as well.

[Feyona]

You don't have space for your vital abilities like regens, Asylum or fairy skills (not forgetting your DPS abilities)? Then there's your problem, they're kind of essential for playing the job. Here's my SCH action bars, for example

And there's no reason whatsoever to bring up the raise argument which is in no way related to what you or I commented (our topic of discussion here was healing and DPSing at the same time). But, if you're doing nothing but raising, then obviously you have bigger issues with your group and should not worry about DPS until people are able to survive a part of the fight in the first place.

This was random group to help someone out, and my spell bar looks like that too and not dpsing in new fights is what ive been saying all along. And there was need to say it cos your all saying theres space etc to dps in those circumstances.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

well is this a joke?

Not really. Someone else already gave you the list of spells you can use to still heal while in Cleric's Stance, though. But rather than that, I'm merely inverting your viewpoint from healer alone viewing the group to the group viewing the healer. You're in a black and white kind of mentality from the looks of it. You either heal 100% as a healer and deal 0% damage contribution, or deal 100% damage and have 0% healing contribution.

There is only so much damage tanks and DPS jobs can to collectively. There is a certain ceiling set by gear and skill. Which is further lowered by a mix of mechanics, dodging, and downtime. Healers are simply in a position that can contribute significantly more damage that the group otherwise would not have. Sure, it's not a glorious 2000 from a dedicated DPS role. Surely two healers that has some idea of what they're doing can do at least what half- or even a full DPS job could do. But of course you can stand there eyeballing the HP bars, waiting for it to drop so you can reactively press a button. But don't be surprised if you're in a group of strangers and don't appreciate your style*. But back to the mechanics I've mentioned. Remember those? If you have at least some idea how the fight roughly goes, you can play the proactive healer. You can eyeball the HP bars as much as you want if you don't feel like putting effort in a proactive stance. But if a tank dies to an auto-attack after a tank buster before you could finish your cast, who is more likely to get blamed for this?

* In another topic I've suggested you to talk about it or do it with friends alone that accept you for this

[Feyona]

Not really. Someone else already gave you the list of spells you can use to still heal while in Cleric's Stance, though. But rather than that, I'm merely inverting your viewpoint from healer alone viewing the group to the group viewing the healer.

There is only so much damage tanks and DPS jobs can to collectively. There is a certain ceiling set by gear and skill. Which is further lowered by a mix of mechanics, dodging, and downtime.

* In another topic I've suggested you to talk about it or do it with friends alone that accept you for this

Do you realise I already know how to dps as healer? Im saying its optimal play and situationally dependant. Well tbh Its seems like its you that only sees things one way , and Im still thinking about my experience not existing, and SE made it so content can be cleared without healer dps so why are you still banging on about it being mostly necessary?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Do you realise I already know how to dps as healer? Im saying its optimal play and situationally dependant. Well tbh Its seems like its you that only sees things one way , and Im still thinking about my experience not existing, and SE made it so content can be cleared without healer dps so why are you still banging on about it being mostly necessary?

If you're aware it's optimal and situation dependent, I am not sure why you're exactly complaining about the concept of healer DPS unless you want to put in less effort to get content done.

And no, I'm not saying it's necessary. I don't believe I've ever said it is or was. I did say that it was part of the meta and the meta is defined by something that started with a small group of people and has been adopted by a large group of people. It takes the majority for a concept to be called a meta. You seem to experience this kind of democracy as a "dictatorship". Which is something I have also mentioned in another topic where I replied to you. So I'll break it down to the root of you and hopefully you'll understand why the healer is pushed with extra duties aside from just pressing that cure button.
Healers are simply in a position to make an encounter more forgiving for everyone. Tanks can only take so much damage, DPS can only deal so much damage. They're gated by gear, mechanics and player skill and are often challenged by the encounter on these two things: eHP and DPS checks. Healers can offer more mitigation to increase survivability. Meaning less HP required before attacks can be survived on their own. Tanks (and dps/healers as well) won't instantly get punished for not being overgeared or for entering at minimum ilvl requirement. Or in other words: Mitigation from healers make an encounter more forgiving.
Remember when I mentioned DPS checks just now? Healers are also in a position to help ease this up or "make it more forgiving". DPS jobs (and tanks) are limited to their gear, skill, and encounter mechanics. Because healer damage isn't included for DPS checks, it eases up said checks. Or rather: It makes DPS checks more forgiving. It allows the group as whole to make mistakes in their rotation and suffer potential damage loss. It makes lack of gear more forgiving as well.
The healing output any of the healer can put out simply blows away any form of HPS checks the game has right now. Sure, there are times when both healers need to heal. But there are also times when neither healers have much to heal. Until Square-Enix introduces content where the healers are using every GCD on a healing spell and are rooted on the ground because they can't afford to stop casting, healers will always have time to make an encounter more forgiving for the whole party. So why bring two healers instead of one if the HPS checks are so low? Because that'll make the encounter more forgiving for those in the healing role! On your own you can afford no mistakes. Together it makes mistakes more forgiving. If you simply don't like making encounters more forgiving for others, others may not be so forgiving for not putting in that extra effort. And concerning effort, I believe we have thoroughly discussed this in another topic you've started.

[Feyona]

If you're aware it's optimal and situation dependent, I am not sure why you're exactly complaining about the concept

Keep saying why I dont like healers being forced to dps over and over. Plus gave you examples of the impact cleric can have. While you have some reasonable points I dont think the game should be ruled by dps. The game is the way it is atm, but I dont think stress factors need to be encouraged though. Plus I do value freedom of choice on a game thats supposed to be enjoyable for people. This is just too toxic. Believe it or not I rarely put in 'less' effort even when Im just healing so I see now the difference in perception comes from and how its hard to understand each other