Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[BigRed5392]

I claim that i know what I do because you started to say that it's lazyness while... it's not.
I've been patient to explain why and how healing and dpsing works and you're saying this.

What do you want me to say now?
Seems like I can't argue because for you, a dpsing healer is someone that doesn't know his job or is lazy.
That's what I feel like.

I'm healing on this game since a long of time, I've done ton of content (dungeons, extreme, savage). I'm not claiming "i'm pro-player", but "I know my class after all this time and thing always are fine when I heal, even if I dps".

I don't know what is your main classes, but if you aren't a healer, how can you tell that i'm doing my job badly then ? =/

I've been playing ff14 since 2.3, my g/f has been playing ff14 since 1.0. If you are not keeping your tank at least 90% hp. that is bad, dps when you have nothing to do. Don't dps if your tank is sitting to 50% or less hp.
There is a huge difference between, dpsing because nothing to do (no one requires healing) or just not healing to dps letting ppl sit on low hp, just to cast a big cure.

It also takes away the main role of the dps, who's job IS to deal damage. My opinion is: I see "forceful" dps healers as people who don't trust their dps party members, so they take it upon themselves to dps. They forgo their main role to dps, and leave tank to sit at 50% or less hp.

This is imo putting dps first healing second. It should be healing first dps second. Keep your tank @ 90% hp. Dps after. This is how my g/f played healer, and none of her runs told her off.

Also labeling off what content you do, is meaningless as it doesn't prove a thing. And you are also assuming my stance. Idm if a healers does damage, my g/f doesn't mind healer doing damage. Just not when she/ or the tank is at or under 50% hp.

putting healing secondary to damage is the wrong way to play healer imo.

[Taika]

Absolutely nothing in this game requires you to keep your tank or other party members at 90% health apart from certain tank busters and big AoE hits in raids or extremes. You're pulling that number out of thin air and it's not based on anything but your imagination on how healers should be played in this game (which you don't even seem to have any personal experience from). As I said before:

A good healer minimises their healing while keeping all party members alive. When you use as little resources as possible on healing, while still keeping everyone safe (and yes, even 10% tank HP can be safe in some cases when you know nothing can crit them to death), you have the maximum amount of resources to spend on more effective contribution (DPS in the case of how this game works). If someone dies, then it's a mistake, of course, but the more skillful and effective the healer is the lower they can let people drop while still keeping everyone alive.

And as he said:

This isn't putting healing as a secondary perspective...
It's knowing the potency of our healing skill, mana management, knowing the approximate damages a tank is taking.

When you know what the damages mobs can do to the tank, you know what skill you have to use.
This isn't making dps or healing a priority. It is knowing to do both at the same time to be as much effective as possible as party member. That's the difference.

[KDSilver]

This isn't putting healing as a secondary perspective...
It's knowing the potency of our healing skill, mana management, knowing the approximate damages a tank is taking.

When you know what the damages mobs can do to the tank, you know what skill you have to use.
This isn't making dps or healing a priority. It is knowing to do both at the same time to be as much effective as possible as party member. That's the difference.

But it's really seems to be a useless debate.
You're not healing in the game it would seems, but still want to make me believe that you know better what we should do.
Then stick to your opinion then...

I have gently tried to explain you why and how but even if I main healer, i'm still wrong.

So well, good then.
Then I'm out of this debate.

[aleph_null]

except in every dungeon run i've seen, and more so with my g/f. Her being 50%or less, most of the time is laziness for sake of dps. People who claim to "know how to play" in my experience don't Again no hate... just personal experiences. Should put 100% focus on on the group, and pay attention to everything. If your tank is under 50% hp and your doing it wrong. This is just my opinion.

Your job is to keep the groups hp up. attack if no one needs a cure, not arbitrarily make down time but not curing till last min.

Eh sorry but as a tank I can definitely say that this is just completely wrong. Leaving your tank below 50% is absolutely fine as long as they don't die. Tanks are quite sturdy, unless there are certain mechanics or adds that give vuln stacks or do huge dmg spikes they won't die quickly. Letting your tank dip below 50% is pretty common in raids if you know what you're doing (no tank busters coming, for example). In fact topping someone up immediately after they take damage is not always the most efficient use of mp, sometimes you can just give them regen or just let the fairy heal them if you know they won't be taking any big damage soon. Healers' job is NOT to keep the group at near full hp, it is to prevent their hp from reaching 0. As long as nobody dies it's fine. If you or your gf are uncomfortable with your hp below 50% due to anxiety issues, please let the healers know, most of the time I believe they'll comply, especially in casual contents.

Also don't forget that tanks have skills like holmgang, living dead too, which can be used to buy more time for the healers to dps, even in dungeons (though living dead should be coordinated beforehands to let your healers know).

[Arutan]

Then what about let people play their main role first and then they may play a bit of another role that isn't their if they feel like to? Stop being an elitist.

[Taika]

Then what about let people play their main role first and then they may play a bit of another role that isn't their if they feel like to? Stop being an elitist.

What do you mean with "elitist" in this context? Is it "elitist" to expect players to use all of their useful abilities, instead of only picking a selection of them? Is it "elitist" to expect Bards to use their songs to boost their party members' DPS and give them MP and TP when needed, in addition to their "main role" which is DPS? Is it "elitist" to expect an off tank to take part in fights and do DPS instead of just standing still afk while there's no adds to tank? Is it "elitist" to ask for a BLM to use their fire spells if they'd prefer only being an ice mage?

I personally expect all party members to do their best to meaningfully participate in advancing the group's goals. Being afk or using your least effective abilities (healing or buffing when neither is required, only casting ice spells when you could use fire rotation, refusing to sing as a BRD while your party could use your song buffs) in any given situation is not meaningful participation. If that makes me an "elitist", then I'll gladly accept that title.

[Pomelo]

What do you mean with "elitist" in this context? Is it "elitist" to expect players to use all of their useful abilities, instead of only picking a selection of them? Is it "elitist" to expect Bards to use their songs to boost their party members' DPS and give them MP and TP when needed, in addition to their "main role" which is DPS? Is it "elitist" to expect an off tank to take part in fights and do DPS instead of just standing still afk while there's no adds to tank?

Totally agree, there are some MEGA lazy players in this community.

[Hunky]

I agree 100% with Taika, KDSilver, and aleph_null.

I'd just like to add. Dpsing as a healer isn't some sort of elitist style of playing.

I'm more of a casual player, and I dps as a healer because the game gives us plenty of opportunities to dps. We're given all these tools to do that. And when you get a good grasp of it, it can make a difference. It's about knowing what your job is capable of and gauging how much the tank can take before you have to heal.

Don't get me wrong. There are times when you can't dps. There are times when you have to heal through unavoidable damage or heal players who got hit by an aoe or a cleave.

But this isn't about those times. During those times, the other players should understand why you weren't able to dps.

Most of the time though, you can dps safely. Once you play like this, you'll realize that most of the dungeons don't really require all that much healing. You'll find yourself dpsing much more often, and that's a good thing.

[Arutan]

Is it "elitist" to expect Bards to use their songs to boost their party members' DPS and give them MP and TP when needed, in addition to their "main role" which is DPS? Is it "elitist" to expect an off tank to take part in fights and do DPS instead of just standing still afk while there's no adds to tank? Is it "elitist" to ask for a BLM to use their fire spells if they'd prefer only being an ice mage?

Now your exemple of the ice BLM is anything but a good example because fire is their main rotation while heal doesn't have a rotation while healing.
For tanks I don't get your point 'cause their DPS is mixed with their tank combo.
BRD has always been a support job. This role just doesn't exist as official in MMO. Why do you think Healers are classified as Heal instead of DPS?

[Taika]

Now your exemple of the ice BLM is anything but a good example because fire is their main rotation while heal doesn't have a rotation while healing.
For tanks I don't get your point 'cause their DPS is mixed with their tank combo.
BRD has always been a support job. This role just doesn't exist as official in MMO. Why do you think Healers are classified as Heal instead of DPS?

My point was, all of the jobs in this game are meant to be played in a way that they're using their most useful abilities in any given situation. For an off tank in an extreme fight, for example, this means tanking adds in tank stance while there are adds to tank, focusing on enmity and defensive cooldowns, then switching to DPS stance and focusing on as much DPS as possible on the boss while there are no tanking duties. For a healer, it means keeping everyone alive and then when there's no healing (or buffing) required, helping your party with DPS. For a BRD or MCH it means buffing your party when needed, but focusing on pushing as much DPS when it isn't. All jobs should be played in a way that you're helping your party as much as possible, and for healers, DPS is a major part of that.

And healers are classified as healers, because they are the ones with the healing skills. Just like tanks are classified as tanks because they have the highest enmity and defensive potency. That doesn't mean healers or tanks shouldn't push as much DPS as possible while there's room for that, and sometimes it's in fact the best way for them to participate. If there's two tanks in a duty that doesn't have anything for an off tank to tank, should that off tank just afk unless the main tank dies? No. And if the healing requirements aren't high enough to require 100% healing, then the healer(s) should likewise participate with DPS instead.