I280 weapons were a mistake

[Xerek]

But is the 280 weapon not makings things easier for others? They don't have to grind out a questline, therefor in your eyes, it's easier (And honestly is, I'll admit.)

Although I would love to see where Anima's were stated as Best in Slot by Square, since I don't recall them saying that (Which meant nothing was broken.)

Let me just quote myself...again...

"What I care about is that they decided to make the anima I worked on no longer BiS because the new Diadem is so awful they have to lure people in with an uber-god weapon."

And relic was BiS from the time it was finished until Heavensward. The anima would have followed suit until they realized the Diadem was terrible and needed a big enough carrot to draw people to the cesspool.

[Jijifli]

Let me just quote myself...again...

"What I care about is that they decided to make the anima I worked on no longer BiS because the new Diadem is so awful they have to lure people in with an uber-god weapon."

And relic was BiS from the time it was finished until Heavensward. The anima would have followed suit until they realized the Diadem was terrible and needed a big enough carrot to draw people to the cesspool.

So if you based it off of your thought on it needing to be BiS, then you can't blame SE on it.

Also, you were meant to get these 280 weapons on the exact same day as the 275 step. So if there weren't issues getting Diadem in, the relic would have never been BiS to begin with for you.

[Xerek]

So if you based it off of your thought on it needing to be BiS, then you can't blame SE on it.

Also, you were meant to get these 280 weapons on the exact same day as the 275 step. So if there weren't issues getting Diadem in, the relic would have never been BiS to begin with for you.

How can I not blame SE? They gave no indication the anima would differ from the relic, and no warning. SE has to be thanking god for the delay right now. If the i280s hit the same day the last anima step dropped the outcry would have been ten times worse.

[Jijifli]

How can I not blame SE? They gave no indication the anima would differ from the relic, and no warning. SE has to be thanking god for the delay right now. If the i280s hit the same day the last anima step dropped the outcry would have been ten times worse.

So you thought they'd be the same as the Relic, which we tore apart in 3.0 for a couple of crystals?

Because I surely remember the 3.0 cluster on relics being worthless since anima became a thing. Or did you not care about the years you put into the relic getting replaced by a level 55 item anyone could obtain?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So you thought they'd be the same as the Relic, which we tore apart in 3.0 for a couple of crystals?

Because I surely remember the 3.0 cluster on relics being worthless since anima became a thing. Or did you not care about the years you put into the relic getting replaced by a level 55 item anyone could obtain?

Alright, first off, anyone who completed a relic knew that you'd be trading them to skip a step in the new relic. And simple logic means you were going to replace a level 50 weapon as you progress to 60. Same thing's going to happen on the way to 70. Trying to discredit what he's saying with weak rebuttals like that, largely to maintain your hardline approach to this hardly seems effective.

Fact is, SE pulled a fast one and plenty of people see that. Maybe some are fine with it, and that's to be expected, honestly. But many players are not, and for largely legitimate reasons. While I personally don't feel it necessary to unsub because of it, if doing so will give SE the rude awakening they need to not repeat this, I say go for it. (As a side note: If you're okay with what's happened now, then you're effectively accepting that it could happen again, perhaps in a way that DOES impact or upset you. Let there be no complaint if/when it does happen.)

[Jijifli]

Alright, first off, anyone who completed a relic knew that you'd be trading them to skip a step in the new relic. And simple logic means you were going to replace a level 50 weapon as you progress to 60.

Minus a very loud and upset crowd on announcement on Anima, thinking you'd be upgrading the Zeta, not trading it in for crystals. I don't think completing the relic put a popup up about trading it in next expac.

Also, I saw plenty of complaining in the level 55-56 range with people upset their relic's were being beaten by leveling gear. So once again, people expect one thing, and get another.

[Xerek]

So you thought they'd be the same as the Relic, which we tore apart in 3.0 for a couple of crystals?

Because I surely remember the 3.0 cluster on relics being worthless since anima became a thing. Or did you not care about the years you put into the relic getting replaced by a level 55 item anyone could obtain?

I have said time and again my expectations were that the anima was, upon completion, to be BiS until Stormblood. So bringing up relics being replaced in Heavensward is pointless. Animas were the new relic and it is reasonable to expect them to be handled just like relics were unless told otherwise. Relics were BiS from completion until HW. Not BiS for nine days.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Minus a very loud and upset crowd on announcement on Anima, thinking you'd be upgrading the Zeta, not trading it in for crystals. I don't think completing the relic put a popup up about trading it in next expac.

Also, I saw plenty of complaining in the level 55-56 range with people upset their relic's were being beaten by leveling gear. So once again, people expect one thing, and get another.

Mileage may vary, but I tend to pay very close attention to what said by the man himself. Though I didn't complete a Zeta relic (I actually don't like relics, despite having one this time around), I was aware that completing a Zeta relic would in some way give players an advantage in beginning the next. I was also well aware they would NOT be the same item. This was also said. Anyone who thought otherwise perhaps wasn't paying attention when this was said. Unfortunate, but hardly a counter argument.

As for the leveling bit? Come on, let's be realistic. If your level 40 gear was still good at level 50, why bother getting 50 gear? In an all new expansion, if anything new couldn't compare to the old or surpass it, why even add it? Let no one be mistaken: Your level 60 gear will only take you so far in Stormblood before you'll HAVE to replace it. Relic, raid gear, tome gear, no matter what, you're going to be replacing it.

That does not however mean it simply doesn't matter now. Stormblood isn't here yet. If it's worth doing, it's still worth doing. The only difference is the 280 weapon defies the formula that's been in place this entire expansion, simply to bait people into trying a hardly-improved content.

[Miste]

However, if you remember the reaction to the original Diadem gear, and look at the ridiculous number of topics on the General Discussion forum about i280 weapons in Diadem 2 you have to concede that there is an extreme reaction and it's not a small number of people reacting.

That is the point though...you concede a lot of people are upset by this, but you don't agree their reasons are valid. If you wanna have that opinion then fine, but seeing as quite a lot ARE upset doesn't that warrant that MAYBE this wasn't the best idea? Generally the more people you annoy the less likely the action taken was a good one.

You can't really compare Diadem v1 to Diadem v2. They were different situations. One gave same item level gear as raid/upgraded sets (i210), the other gives i280 weapon (which is the most important piece for all jobs) and it is 5-10 item levels higher than what raid/relic/upgraded weapons give.

I call it insecurity because the nature of the reaction and it's strength suggests that players complaining are not very secure or happy in their gear

As for your idea about insecurity not all of us dislike i280 because of that. I can dislike something without being insecure about it (like I dislike the /playdead emote ended up in cash shop, but am I insecure without it? No, and I don't feel unhappy with what I do have access to by paying my monthly sub just because I don't have /playdead).

Basically you are trying to attach an emotion/feeling onto others that you think they are feeling due to their reaction, but in the end that is just how you personally think they feel. Unless you sit down and talk to all of them you don't really know exactly how they feel about it as feelings are very convoluted and hard to express sometimes. Through text? You aren't going to get the emotion conveyed properly or at all.

Logically the majority of the complaints about the i280 weapon are coming from end game players and raiders.

I don't know if you can just outright claim this with no factual statistics. I know some casual players who are upset since they just completed relic and it got bumped out of best weapon in 9 days.

In general I think you are missing the fact that the statistics of course would be skewed because anyone who is below level 60 (and somewhere below avg item level 250) wouldn't have any experience with the item levels people are discussing at the moment (i275 relic, i275 savage, i270 shire weapon, and i280 diadem). So this issue mostly pertains to end-game, raiders, and relic owners. If that is what the issue pertains to then those are the ones who are voicing opinions.

It's kind of like if someone made a topic saying "Savage Raids are too punishing" - most of the opinions in there will be from savage raiders...because that is what the issue pertains to. So in the end what type of player the person is who is complaining depends on the issue therefore isn't really relevant or a reason to claim they have no significant reasons to complain.

If you want to argue against there being an issue then argue to refute the specific points being made by people. Bringing what type of player they are into the argument does nothing except make you look biased.

Whether someone is casual, or a raider etc isn't relevant to the complaints since players of both types have weapons they could get. Relic for non-raiders, and savage weapons for raiders.

I honestly can't see how anyone already possessing one or more i270 weapons has any significant reason to complain about it.

Well you might be unable to understand since you aren't in the same position unless you've completed a 3.0 relic or raided 3.0.

[Ceasaria]

So I want to sum up :

Players (from what I remember) :
“For each patch, it’s always the same previsible thing with no surprise. I can tell you next patch, it will be two dungeons, one trial, one raid 24 man, mounts…It’s always the same cycle”
“Heavensward is just a copy of Realm Reborn. Square Enix need to take risk.”
“The endgame gear content (and midcore content) is lacking, we have only raid gear, script gear and relic (and trial and PotD)”
“There is nothing to do !”

SE (They never say that, but they could think really this way) :
“Hi fellow adventurers, we wanted to take risk this time with this new Diadem by breaking the usual cycle of gear content but also by giving you the opportunity to get new gears. If you didn't play the last Diadem, consider this as a new mean to obtain very good gears. Take out your relic and raid weapon, and face the boss in those dangerous lands, and more especially those in the emergency mission. This is the last major content you get until Stormblood. I hope you will enjoy this, because it’s a preview of what awaits you with Eureka.”

All the Diadem haters replies…

I know the Diadem is not the best thing in this game.
Run Fates again and again is not fun.
All loots is about RNG (some may like, other not).
But we have missions to guide us.
Extremely rare weapons could be obtained in an epic fight beside dozen of players.
Many good ideas came from players who cares about Diadem to improve it.
Caves should be used for a different activity (mini dungeon maybe ?)
Proto Ultima should be here
Reduce the amount of fates and put more original quests.
Add more different emergency missions ?
Etc.

So guys, what do you want ?

If you don’t like it, and don’t try to see why SE did that, what could be improved, etc., if you don’t encourage risk taking, SE will continue to serve what they did for almost 4 years with some adding here and there.
You don’t like the fact there is a ilvl weapon 280 ? Please, suggest something useful instead to cry (nice try with the topic about horizontal progression). Ah yeah, play the new Diadem before to talk (yep, I saw that on french forum, anti-diadem guys talk but never did Diadem lol).

People want to see changes and see risks, but when it come, they whine because it’s not what they have expected, because they are took away from their comfort zone, because they thought everything is inked in the marbre.

It’s a certainty some people are not ready that Square Enix takes risks.
Maybe SE could talk more often on forum (like they did with PVP), especially personals messages from Yoshida, and try to know if players are ready for this kind of content, this kind of direction, and explained why they want to do this (or why they did it).

To conclude, I want to say, if people are upset, it’s because, there is a misunderstanding somehow, in the design choice, in the promise SE did to a part of the community (those who do raids, those who do relics). When something major change without explanations, it bring us to what we are now living. I hope Yoshida could answer to all fans at PAX East later.