Should SE do something about PvE toxitiy?*point PvP change*

[matteoxyz]

I have played for years and I have only occasionally encountered toxic behaviour. I play on a Japanese realm so perhaps that's why people are more polite and confident considerate. I also find that very few players I've encountered are so incompetent that it causes an issue. Even when I've made awful mistakes people are supportive and friendly. I suggest turning off chat window and using PF if people in DF are ruining it for you. Run content with FC/LS where possible. This community is so so so much better than WoW and other MMO's.

[Silverquick]

I admit I haven't seen any either. I think I ran into one in Copper Mines once long long ago... but since then...

Honestly everyone I've run into is very mellow. I think I've had the complete opposite experience.

While its true I've run into a couple who did not know their job or weren't very good, the reality is, there's no real death penalties in this game and no real reason to get bent out of shape about anything. Just cover and move on.

Now... if it was like the old Everquest... where dying meant losing a good month worth of experience progress and maybe your level if you died without a Res... and possibly losing all your gear you spent years working to obtain... then yeah I could see why some people would get pretty huffy over not playing perfectly.

But in this game? Really?

Its kind of a joke to get all huffy over a death or two when there's no real penalty for it.

[Silverquick]

(continued)
That said the flipped side is also true... you really should learn to play your character and at least try to live up to the expectations of your party. After all... its not just you out there.

I also get a kick out of Elitism over raids in FFXIV... you have no idea how deadly or how much courage it took to break the original Fear and Hate planes in old EQ given the penalties for failure... I doubt most people playing this game today could hack it there...

In the original Fear and Hate planes in EQ... you were EXPECTED to die... and likely would die just spawning in before you even had control of your character because the arrival point was filled with mobs... so... the Rogues and Clerics were expected to run to the nearest spot where there were no mobs drawing NO agro... while the rest of the Raid wipes... then the sneaking rogues had to go drag their corpses back to the hill where they would be Rez'd

[Silverquick]

(continued)
Failure meant raid wipe...

And you know what that means... month worth of experience points lost, failure to retrieve your corpse in 24 hours meant it decayed and you lost all your items that took you months at a time just to camp the Boss mob spawn to get them.

And that was just to START the raid... let alone survive the rest of it.

So I do wonder why anyone in a game as easy at this thinks that somehow high end Raiding here makes you "Elite"...

[Kosmos992k]

Ok so the title may be hard what I mean but I am still, what you call "salty" on the PvP change while doing nothing to fight PvE toxicity.**snip** She had to heal a lot because people standing in avoidable damage for more DPS on the DPS meter. Our brd friend was dodging like she should but on the first boss she was tanking it though DPS, making there a lot to heal. **snip**

Well done. You have just described an in-game occurrence of something that I and many other posters have complained about for years now. The tendency for DPS players to ignore everything else in favor of their positionals in order to max their DPS, regardless of the impact. Unfortunately some players see the numbers on their DPS meters as more important achievements than anything in-game.

You can't fix that by blending PvP with PvE in any way. Everyone is so bent on PS because there were several raids with very high DPS checks, and the meta game became dominated by maxing out your DPS - even healers and tanks. The discussions where this comes up invariably hear from people saying that higher DPS is more efficient than anything else because it mitigates more damage over time if you kill things more quickly. And so, by that argument, DPS is king.

[Rinari]

I always wonder where people find that amount of toxic groups (doesn't matter if premade or not). I do dungeons/raids a lot with randoms and had seldom a problem with toxic behavior.
Most dungeons/raids start with a "hey" (if at all) and a "gg/bye" at the end.

I wonder that to. I always greet the other players at the start and give a goodbye at the end. Usually the greeting is returned if someone hasn't beaten me to it. Most groups are just quiet. I try to crack a joke when I get a moment and something strikes me or goof around emotes if I'm forced to wait for something. Usually players join in after that. I've rarely experienced any sort of toxic behavior. There are maybe three instances in all the dungeons I've ran that I could call someone toxic, and it was still pretty tame. FFXIV has had one of the friendliest, least toxic, communities of any I've been in.

I should add though, the highest content I'm doing so far is expert roulettes. Could it be that the worst behavior is almost exclusively at the top-end content? Maybe I don't get it because I'm tanking and nobody wants to piss off the tank. Two of the three 'maybe toxic' things I've encountered have been instances where people berated the healer in the group though.

[Ama_Hamada]

If toxicity was not a problem and a better community as you claim, why was such a drastic change made to the game due to it? First we have the DF queue limit rejection thing, which locked me out unfairly before due to D/cs, and the PvP change, removing the chat out of a game mode. I never heard of another game removing chat from a game mode because there was so much toxicity. In feast I never even seen that much toxicity other then fake d/cing and being obvious about it towin trade.

In PvE I seen SOOOO much more toxicity then PvP, (note the following is a list, they happened in different places) like harassing me over every single spell I casted after they died, a pre-made kicking me for no reason without a word said in dun, People that MPK my friend for mistake in pulling Alexander after a ready check and after feign pulling it several times, countless people that want to speed run in deep by afking at the portal up while 2 people that want silvers have to do so alone, refusal to help heal, harass me over being afk because the second healer wants to 24/7 clearic, new people new at x that harass you over giving them advice "hey do not be a cuck I am new" , making people carry you because the game allows you enter dfs in crafting gear, expecting and still making you carry them because the game allows you to equip being undergeared for things, tanks that does not hold hate because he is undergeared then flame the DPS for doing too much DPS, Flaming healers for using clearic staance, flaming healers for casting holy on trash packs, harassing healers who ask the tank to pull smaller because they cannot keep up, kicking healers because they are not overgeared to keep up with mass pulling, People chewing out others due to lacking elitist level DPS, Having DFs so consistently bad people do not even want to do them:

Had pretty much the same experience when I first played this game... though with me I was a healer. Unfortunately, you just get people whom are impatient with new people... it left a everlasting scar on me, and nowadays I try to avoid dungeons as much as I can. If I'm required to do a dungeon, I try to bring in people I know whom I know will be patient with me if I mess up. You just have to surround yourself with friendly patient people when you're new. ( Or if you're terrible at the game like me...lol.)

people that pocket heal and pocket buff a single person in a raid just so they can brag about top dps (what made me make this thread when I saw it off my friend's stream), My friend getting suspended for 9 days just because she got an alt while in a duty with me (because you can't send out tells while in a duty) to pea with someone to stop harassing her over the novice network because the person would not stop despite others telling the person to do so (why they did not kick that person out of the chat is beyond me) but we couldn't due to being in a DF.

Also isn't the lacking the ability of sending tells out of a DF due to toxicity or some ps3 limitation? All this block channels of talking is becoming really infuriating. If you could send out tells out of a DF or kick people from the novice while in a DF, my friend wouldn't of got suspended for an accused "blacklist dodging"

[Llus]

the moar dps mentality came from alexander savage though. healers were not forced to dps till that was released. dps didn't spam their buffs at pull till then.
Raid mentalities always bleed into the average content. Look at over watch people who follow the e-sport scene or the 1%, force that meta on to the average players And it ripples.

to play properly is to work with the team. No more or less. People forgot that in 3.0. They wanna do w.e they wanna do and don't care who they step on. Pretty much it is the meta mentality that spreads.

Note i said raid meta/scene... not players

think you need to cool your jets a little and read the whole post, instead of 1 line.

Ummmmm no.

Healers DPSing has been a thing since 2.0
DPS popping all their buffs to burst has been a thing since 2.0
HW made bursts more powerful and changed bursts somewhat

Raid mentalities don't bleed into the average content; people that know their skills actually use them.

[Ama_Hamada]

Ummmmm no.

Healers DPSing has been a thing since 2.0
DPS popping all their buffs to burst has been a thing since 2.0
HW made bursts more powerful and changed bursts somewhat

Raid mentalities don't bleed into the average content; people that know their skills actually use them.

I think they mean more so on the common scale of things.
in 2.0 my friend told me a story how someone told her she had clearic stance on and shouldn't be having it on during dungeons while it should only be a solo thing. Her replay was "I keep turning it on and off, you have not noticed that?" The reply she got was "No I never seen that before, its weird but makes sense I guess for lower level dungeons" Also compared to 2.0 the amount of healers overdps and not healing when they should be has been increasing, I do not remember it ever happening in 2.0.

[bardaboo]

Want to eliminate pve toxicity? Honestly? Stop making everything easy.
Stop rewarding those that lag behind with fast easy upgrades.
didn't cap tomes for 4 months? Cool do some hunts.
Don't want to actually have to learn your class by running dungeons to lvl up? Cool heres potd.
so ok. These people are now caught up to those of us who tried, and learned and cared.
now they are in our dungeons doing gawd awful at everything.
I understand that SE has everything gated so catching up is required. But don't make it super easy too. MAKE these people LEARN THEIR CLASSES. Then they won't load into expert roulette and get "bullied by mean mentors" who expect them to know something. Toxicity GONE