Is our sub fee not enought

[Naunet]

Eh, what makes them different is one is cash shop exclusive and the other isn't.

That's circular logic. "Why is this emote on the cash shop? Because it's on the cash shop."

You also have no way of knowing what would or would not have been added to the game without the cash shop, so arguing that point is rather silly.

I have no insight into SE's plans but if I had to guess

Making stuff up out of thin air isn't really a good way to defend a point.

you know. the more i think about it. the more i realize we are getting dangerously close to an age where people will sell bottles of air and there will be people who will defend it ._.

Pretty much. People are bending over backward to justify SE's actions here.

Someone else already said it this way, but I'll reiterate: The more items get shunted to the cash shop, the less our actual sub is worth. I do not want to see my subscription devalued, as at some point it will be low enough that I will see no further point in maintaining it.

[Belhi]

That's circular logic. "Why is this emote on the cash shop? Because it's on the cash shop."

You also have no way of knowing what would or would not have been added to the game without the cash shop, so arguing that point is rather silly.

Yoshi P mentioned that there is a person at SE which decides on wether any items made that go on the cash shop will make a return on investment for the resources taken to develop them before green lighting them. That strongly suggests that save for the festival gear, most items that turn up on the cash shop wouldn't be made in the first place otherwise. They were using a Krile outfit as an example. It hasn't been developed because the woman who makes those calls wasn't sure that sales would be sufficient to justify the work investment.

People are making the assumption that someone just picks through what they are developing and cherry picks out stuff for the cash shop. It seems different to that.

As I said, do you really feel that the content, glamour, gearsets, emotes, hairstyles, etc. that we get in every patch aren't value for money?

[Naunet]

As I said, do you really feel that the content, glamour, gearsets, emotes, hairstyles, etc. that we get in every patch aren't value for money?

What I feel is that as SE adds more to the cash shop, what I'm getting for my sub is proportionally reduced - thus my subscription loses value.

There is no real difference between an emote or dance earned via quest and an emote purchased in the cash shop. They are content, and I don't appreciate SE deciding that some content gets to be double-charged for.

[rainichan]

Various things I've seen over the past few pages:

- Anything coming from the CH/KR version we pay for because the players in those regions (for the most part) had to pay the exact same price for them. While their business model is not a sub base but hour base, the amount for the outfits for example were probably how much they had to pay for their few hours of gameplay when the event for those items were up. They had to keep it fair for those players by making us pay for them too.

- "Why put it in the cash shop? Just put it in the game and have us work for it!" Three words for you: YOKAI. WATCH. EVENT. Also, Yoshi-P's reaction to "make end game stuff harder it's not hard enough!" sums it up for me too: Really? First you want it easier, then you want it harder, then it's TOO hard so we ease off on the difficulty and now it's too easy? Really?? And for CS vs event grinding in game, it's the same thing. They go "fine we'll put in an event, get the items that way" and then it's IT'S TOO MUCH WORK YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST PUT IT IN CS! So they put stuff into the CS. then it's YOU SHOULD HAVE PUT THAT BEHIND AN EVENT OR LET US GET SOME OTHER WAY! GS is too much for things! Let me pay my $5 for it and that way I don't have to work!

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.

- Re: business models. As I already said earlier in the thread, sub fees + buying the base game (and any xpacs) go directly to SE as a whole. All of that money gets redistributed back to the company in the way of budgets to other dev teams for stuff like FFXV, whatever DQ game is coming out, Mobius FF, the FFVII remake, etc. All of the money that those rake in will go back into that budget and in turn help fund FFXIV development. It also goes to paychecks, marketing, PR, paying utility bills/property taxes/whatever else. Yes, some of our sub fee likely goes back into FFXIV as a whole for new content/glams/minions/whatever, but the reason for the cash shop was for the devs to have their own fall back. The shiny EU servers were said to be bought and set up on a majority of the cash shop funds that they got (plus whatever they could pull from their budget I'd imagine.) It's likely why SB had triple the budget that HW had. They had more from CS sales, add that to what SE was giving them for SB development, hey we can do more!

- "But I want it and was hoping it would be in the game itself, I don't wanna pay for it on top of my sub!" You can't always get what you want.. Don't buy it. Or just do anyway. Pretty sure a majority of the people buying are on Balmung, and if our server pays for everyone else, good on us I guess lol.

- General doom and gloom IT'S GOING TO BE P2W AWMAHGAWWWWWD

No it's not. Jump/story pots aren't "p2w", players who want to be decent will learn their dang class, everyone's going to have to relearn their classes when they revamp in however they're going to revamp it, and they're going to have to learn new rotations from 60-70 just like everyone else since a level jump pot will only likely go to 60. There's plenty of new players who want to play for the story and might just do a level jump and play the story from the beginning (Godspeed to them through 2.1) and there's going to be the players who will be the opposite who will want to skip the story but try to get a handle of their class before resorting to a jump pot or just go from 1-70. Yeah there will be players who use both, but who cares they're playing to play with friends. Sometimes those friends don't want to do yet another Castrum/Prae run for the umpteenth time and that leaves the new players in the dust - the exact reason why they had to bribe people to run those dungeons in the first place. Run this roulette, get a tome reward and possible noob bonus! If that noob wants to watch cutscenes? Lol should have made a PF for it/rewatch it in the inn we need to speedrun this gogogoskipskipskip.

Yeah, I don't blame people for wanting to skip that hassle at this point, especially if they've heard about that from friends already playing.

Yoshi-P has already said, and was incredibly adamant that the CS items will never go p2w. Blah blah retainers set bonuses blah but with retainers, not everyone uses them for ventures or to sell a lot of things. Markets on each server are different - I have almost all retainers unlocked because I'm a glamour hound and have too many glam items to count, and nothing on my retainers is moving right now. I'm seeing about the same return as I was with 2-3 less than I have now. Set bonuses are also on the Brand New Armor sets gained from doing the Hall of Novice (which is required to do before you go into Sastasha) and you actually gain more of a bonus if you couple it with a RAF items.

So there you go. tl;dr businesses will business, players will never be happy no matter how much the dev team tries to make everyone happy, AWMAHGAWD P2W ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN and no it's not "already happening" like people are saying it is.

I'm going back to weekending and playing video games til I go back to work on Monday.

[Naunet]

They go "fine we'll put in an event, get the items that way" and then it's IT'S TOO MUCH WORK YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST PUT IT IN CS! So they put stuff into the CS. then it's YOU SHOULD HAVE PUT THAT BEHIND AN EVENT OR LET US GET SOME OTHER WAY! GS is too much for things! Let me pay my $5 for it and that way I don't have to work!

This is a bunch of BS. I would never complain about an outfit or emote being implemented in the game. I don't think anyone in their right mind would, save for those few with more money than sense. And people weren't just complaining arbitrarily about the Yokai event because it was "too hard". It was just horribly monotonous because there is not a single thing interesting about grinding fates.

Your whole post is not much more than setting up a bunch of strawmen and misconstrued arguments.

[rainichan]

This is a bunch of BS. I would never complain about an outfit or emote being implemented in the game. I don't think anyone in their right mind would, save for those few with more money than sense. And people weren't just complaining arbitrarily about the Yokai event because it was "too hard". It was just horribly monotonous because there is not a single thing interesting about grinding fates.

Your whole post is not much more than setting up a bunch of strawmen and misconstrued arguments.

*You* might not, but others *do*. People don't want the gating of content but they want it in game. All 3 mounts in Gold Saucer are gated behind nearly 2mil in MGP. Plenty of people who complained loudly over Fenrir on release because it was too much work.

It's not a strawman argument if you see it in action :')

[Skivvy]

*You* might not, but others *do*. People don't want the gating of content but they want it in game.

So what is the alternative? Toss everything in the cash shop?

Perhaps I'm just far too much of an old-school gamer, but I like the idea of working towards things in game. If the reward is worth it to me, but a bit challenging, I get to make the determination if it's worth my time and effort. If not, I move on to something else.

[rainichan]

Two-fer since I'm sitting in queue:

snip

They've been trying to do that. Content is the same in fact! During the last Live Letter it was said that there's someone in charge of deciding what goes into the game itself and what goes into the cash shop based on "will this be profitable should we sell it in the cash shop instead? The problem is that not everyone all at once will be happy for as often as they try to add just a couple of things here and there to the shop. We get quite a bit in the game itself through MSQ, MGP, FATE events, etc that there has to be some balance.

snip

Plenty do that now. But when you have the camp of "we want something to really work for!" and they're the loudest, you get the relic weapon grind. Then you get "that's too difficult!" from others. Do EX weapons then and for some that *still* might be too much work. Some people don't want the work, they want the instant gratification. I don't want everything ever in the CS, and I'm glad the flying chair was a GS reward. But again, balance. If that's how they're going to balance out glamour and vanity items on high pop servers then so be it.

[Kosmos992k]

Plenty do that now. But when you have the camp of "we want something to really work for!" and they're the loudest, you get the relic weapon grind. Then you get "that's too difficult!" from others. Do EX weapons then and for some that *still* might be too much work. Some people don't want the work, they want the instant gratification. I don't want everything ever in the CS, and I'm glad the flying chair was a GS reward. But again, balance. If that's how they're going to balance out glamour and vanity items on high pop servers then so be it.

Except that I think you may have the point of the relic confused. I was under the strong impression that the Relic weapon was meant to be a weapon that casual players who did not spend lots of time in end-game content like raids and extreme trials could obtain through continued effort. The EX trial weapons were - IMHO - meant to be glittering rewards for the extra effort involved in those trials, just as other end-game gear was intended to be the glittering reward for the extra effort involved in other end-game content. The Relic was not intended to be conventional end-game content because it was targeted at players who are not typical end-game players. However, the order in which you [place relic vs EX trial weapons strongly suggests that Relic has now become end-game content as well.

That's a pretty crappy turn of events IMHO - and seems to go against the intent of the Relic in the first place.

[vp_cmc]

First you want it easier, then you want it harder, then it's TOO hard so we ease off on the difficulty and now it's too easy? Really??

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.

Let's assume you are a manufacture company and producing... jeans, for example. You make them of one specific size - you did a research and it said you that that specific size fits most of your customers.

Then you customer (one of them) comes and says: "Hey, they are too wide, can you make them of smaller size". You say OK and change the size. Then other customer (but you don't distinguish them one from another, they look all same for you) comes and says: "They are to narrow, I can't wear them".

Unsolvable?

Of course, you know the solution - make them of different sizes, and customers can choose one that they see most fit themselves.