[Tanks/Healers]: Are you disappointed there is no new job in 4.0?

[Rokke]

The thing is that I don't see them drastically changing AST because they want it to be able to fill both roles in the existing meta. The only way to make balancing that work is to either alter the meta itself or try and tie it down to a particular place. Or make all the Jobs good at doing everything which would end up making them feel even more similar.

They kinda backed themselves into a corner and we got AST, a WHM with SCH shields as a result. It was hardly new when introduced and devs trying to smash it into the meta ended in it being broken now. AST's playstyle and how its been handled are pretty much why I don't think it'd be a good idea to introduce a new healer atm. I don't really want another job thats a repainted existing job.

[Montlee]

Goad and enmity control is a thing. Not to mention enhancing the party's burst damage with Trick.
Goad is TP regen for everyone else ASIDE from the ninja.. That alone should show you how selfless of a class they are meant to be.
As for Enmity control - they allow the tanks to push out more damage by dropping enmity stances and combos in favour of damage, with both Shadewalker and Smokescreen.

Trick increases their own damage too and is a normal part of their rotation. Having Litany and Disembowel doesn't suddenly make DRG any less of a "heavy melee dps". Goad and Shadewalker are nice, but are off the GCD and don't impact the ninja's dps in the slightest so I'm not sure why those would put melee players off from the job. Personally I love DRG and MNK but not ninja, and my reasoning for that is I hate how mudras clip the GCD--not the extra utility that lets them lock in 1 of the 2 melee slots in a raid.

[Shippuu]

In all honesty, your statement earlier about PLD being "different" to WAR and DRK..

They really just aren't..

They are literally the same base class with some sort of mechanic overlayed over the top of it.

I do hope you realize that by going on about this like you are, you're single-handedly destroying your own previous argument right?

Because Tanks and Healers just got their new shiny in the current running expac..

By your own admission, Tanks really didn't get a new shiny because the new tank job added is copy paste. All the tank players who didn't want Paladin 2.0 have still gotten nothing. Just like DPS players who prefer a different experience in their DPS role (i.e. you breaking down DPS into multiple subcategories, when realistically after Heavensward it's either Melee, or Caster.) What about people who want to tank but just don't like the current tanks? Or want a difference in playstyle inside their preferred role?

If you can break DPS down into sub roles, then Tanks and Healers can be too, which means there's plenty of those demographics that have gotten nothing either.

[Shippuu]

I actually think a hammer wielding tank would be a great idea. Synergy with MNK would improve since hammer = blunt damage

This alone won't fix MNK's problems. You gain Synergy with monk, but lose the synergy that now 5 other jobs share. All 3 tanks and now 2 DPS jobs use Slashing damage. All introducing a Blunt damage tank will do is basically make a tank that is less desirable from the get-go for party compositions.

The better choice is to remove blunt/slash/pierce etc. damage types altogether. Then it doesn't matter. But implementing a whole other job just to make MNK more viable is not how you fix a job.

[loreleidiangelo]

I think it's safe to break DPS down into three groups, really - melee, magical ranged, and physical ranged. Maybe if RDM adds significant "magical melee" gameplay to their arsenal we'll have four subgroups, but for now I think that's the easiest way to approach it. HW added a "physical ranged" DPS, so SB is adding a "melee" DPS and a "magical ranged" DPS (assuming RDM's melee aspect is just some weird gimmick and not a core aspect of their gameplay).

Maybe the intention was to balance out the options for those three subgroups, or maybe the intention really IS to seriously work on how new tanking and healing jobs are conceptualized and designed before adding any more to our meta. Either way, it's what we're being given, so at this point there's not much point in bickering over it. That said, I can't wait for the endless forum riots if the next two jobs in 5.0 are something odd like a new DPS and a new healer (but no new tank), or a new DPS and a new tank (but no new healer). Or, heaven forfend, if the devs don't add any new jobs at ALL, citing that they want to work on making a broader variety of multitudinous types of content for people to enjoy instead of just tomestone roulettes and 8-man raids. It doesn't matter that stuff like this is standard for other MMOs, the forum rage will be palpable.

[Blazinhart]

Because Astro is a mix between White Mage and Scholar, its cards are totally RNG, DPS is not interesting at all compared to the two others jobs, and the concept of the Balance destroy the other cards in some way.
In fact, it's lack identity.

I cannot disagree with you more. As a main AST, IMO, all the cards are useful. His DPS is very good, I never had problems with It. And if you're a good AST you know what todo with every Card, winning RNG.

[Llus]

So by that logic NIN is similar to BRD? O.o

This is my point. People seem to be trying to divide DPS into a dozen different sub roles to justify there being two dps. There is one logical reason and one alone why we aren't having a tank and healer. They could only make two jobs and tanks and healers missed out this time. Beyond that it starts to get ridiculous. Next you will be dividing them up by the type of damage they do to justify it. Hell with the stats NIN and BRD/MCH and MNK and DRG don't share gear beyond accessories so why the hell does primary stats matter?

Yes, NIN is similar to BRD. They are a support mele role; smokescreen, shadewalker, trick attack, goad, jugulate, dancing edge

[Llus]

This alone won't fix MNK's problems. You gain Synergy with monk, but lose the synergy that now 5 other jobs share. All 3 tanks and now 2 DPS jobs use Slashing damage. All introducing a Blunt damage tank will do is basically make a tank that is less desirable from the get-go for party compositions.

The better choice is to remove blunt/slash/pierce etc. damage types altogether. Then it doesn't matter. But implementing a whole other job just to make MNK more viable is not how you fix a job.

I agree. It would be just one more niche comp that people might play but doesn't fix the underlying issue with monk in that it's only raid utility is traited mantra.

[Llus]

That said, I can't wait for the endless forum riots if the next two jobs in 5.0 are something odd like a new DPS and a new healer (but no new tank), or a new DPS and a new tank (but no new healer).

I believe 5 will be adding 2 new tanks and 6 will be adding 2 new healers (4 is the "red" expansion, 5 the "blue", 6 the "green"). Blue Mage, look forward to it?

[Nicobo]

[Tanks/Healers]: Are you disappointed there is no new job in 4.0?

I am glad that there will be no new tank or heal jobs.
If anyone has farmed A1s for light, you will know we have too too many tanks and healers.