Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Xlantaa]

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...at_is_a_Mentor

I see nothing in there about carrying players who cheese ilvl restrictions by wearing Fending Gear on a BRD. If anything, removing the player actually followed rule number 2, by getting rid of a toxic player who did not wish to perform their role correctly.

That's the typicall vague excuse to kick someone. If someone does not perform, you should teach him. You cannot use the kick on him and ignore the problem. The toxic is you in this case by ignoring the problem and kicking him. Mentor job is not kick players who don't know how to play, it is teach them (that's the purpose of them). You didn't understand anything.

[Sylve]

One of the things I'm seeing or hearing of is a lot is people leveling in POTD, but not trying to learn a rotaton or what the best way to play their class is.

This first started happening with FATE leveling parties in 2.0.
An unfortunate number of people leveled Tanks in FATE parties simply by running around in circles and casting Flash.

The result was a massive influx of tanks in the DF at 50 who had absolutely no idea how to actually play the jobs. I even met a Bard in AK who exclusively used Quick Nock and Straight Shot for the entire run, when asked about it he replied with "It worked great in the FATEs".
Dungeons are the single best way to level. Not for efficiency but for learning the job. Unfortunately, the prevailing mentality in MMOs is that the game "Doesn't begin until level cap", despite that the leveling process introduces you to your rotations in a very organic fashion.
But with the AoE rush mentality that people have been trying to force into leveling dungeons, you end up with a ton of 60s who barely know how to do more than spam AoEs.
Which is why trash packs in 24mans go smoothly enough and then everything falls apart on the bosses ...

[Isala]

That's the typicall vague excuse to kick someone. If someone does not perform, you should teach him. You cannot use the kick on him and ignore the problem. The toxic is you in this case by ignoring the problem and kicking him. Mentor job is not kick players who don't know how to play, it is teach them (that's the purpose of them). You didn't understand anything.

You assume that nobody tried to teach the OP how to actually gear up his bard before kicking him. We're only hearing the "I got kicked for no reason!" line that we hear from every player who was, in reality, kicked for a very plain reason, and told so in advance.

[Xlantaa]

You assume that nobody tried to teach the OP how to actually gear up his bard before kicking him. We're only hearing the "I got kicked for no reason!" line that we hear from every player who was, in reality, kicked for a very plain reason, and told so in advance.

If you tried to teach someone and they come with the typicall "I play as I want and you don't pay my sub shut up", then you have reason. But kicking even before try to teach is what is not correct, which is the OP case. About if Op is lying or not, we will never know, but if it is like he said, of course is not correct and is kick abuse.

[Shurrikhan]

I see nothing in there about carrying players who cheese ilvl restrictions by wearing Fending Gear on a BRD. If anything, removing the player actually followed rule number 2, by getting rid of a toxic player who did not wish to perform their role correctly.

That's the typicall vague excuse to kick someone. If someone does not perform, you should teach him. You cannot use the kick on him and ignore the problem. The toxic is you in this case by ignoring the problem and kicking him. Mentor job is not kick players who don't know how to play, it is teach them (that's the purpose of them). You didn't understand anything.

In the case you are quoting, even had the player been playing optimally, he still would have been asking to be carried, by the mere fact that he had to exploit gearing in order enter the instance; his dps, too, even if perfect for his ilvl, would still be lower than intended. Now, if he was actually playing above average, within the range of leniency the inflated minimum ilvl allows for, to make up for the difference, no one would have even noticed that he was wearing fending accessories. But clearly he wasn't. The only way that wouldn't be intentionally holding the group back, or knowing that he knows how to play well enough to not underperform (in which case this conflict would never occur) would be if he or she honestly thought vitality was an output stat... as Bard. Maybe, maybe, if he or she had only played tanks up until then, that might be the case. And so I would ask, but if it not, then my own patience for the person would be considerably reduced. I don't mind carrying a person with low dps if it means I can impart learning. But I don't have much patience for someone who'd hold back the group intentionally.

My own checklist:

1 - Go in as mentor
2 - Identify members whose dps is abnormally low FOR THEIR iLVL
2b Use the term "unmodified enmity (which is directly correlatable with dps)" rather than "dps" often enough to prevent being banned by those you're helping
3 - Deploy general, class-specific, and rotation-specific advice macros or open advice
4 - Note continued errors and points of confusion
5 - Personal advice while pointing out incoming points of opportunity to test improvement
6 - Allow players to /follow a ranged party member or afk while they look up a guide, to meet at the next point of learning opportunity (e.g. the boss, if it was their opener or ST dps that sucked; next mass pull if it was their Doom Spiking that sucked)
7 - If the player consistently snobs advice and refuses to perform at least as well as expected for someone of their experience and ilvl, you have reason to kick so that someone else may enter and actually practice and learn. If little remains of the run, though, you will most likely be reducing the opportunities for the replacing player by wasting a lot of the value of all that time spent in queue (1 boss in place of a full run).

[Adire]

Mentors on FFXIV are not mentors, they are edge-lord millennials or teenagers.

Millennials are often accused of having a "participation award" mentality and here you're accusing millennials of being unaccepting of inadequate performance. Which one is true? My guess is neither is true :P

[AnaviAnael]

Well, it's been over a week and still no response from the OP. I guess they don't want help gearing up, or help learning rotation. Oh well, we offered.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Millennials are often accused of having a "participation award" mentality and here you're accusing millennials of being unaccepting of inadequate performance. Which one is true? My guess is neither is true :P

I bet they are a millennial themselves :P

Well, it's been over a week and still no response from the OP. I guess they don't want help gearing up, or help learning rotation. Oh well, we offered.

This is usually the case with these posts. They didn't actually want help, they wanted to get support on the forums for playing their way.

[AnaviAnael]

This is usually the case with these posts. They didn't actually want help, they wanted to get support on the forums for playing their way.

Yup. It's the old saying: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

[Cylestea]

It is unfortunate, but there is really nothing you can do about it. Maybe one day you can report mentors and they can revoke their crowns for their abuse of the vote kick button.

you can do that already have been able to since they introduced it