Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[HoodRat]

you assume incorrectly. i also play paladin. but im not talking about stance. im talking rotation, and in shield oath, you still need need to hit those damage buttons to retain agro. but that's for the lesson eh?

Lmao What are you talking about? XD

[bounddreamer]

Lmao What are you talking about? XD

Honest to God this is why people underestimate the potential of PLD

[dotsforlife]

People can defend lazy behavior all they want. Until it changes though expect to excluded at times (end game especially) or berated for it. That's what it boils down to. No one cares if you've got "leet skillz" or not. They just expect you to play your role fully. It's not much to ask for. No amount of pandering, opinion or straw man arguments will change the fact that those players are indeed lazy and people are calling for them out for it. Good luck with the thread.

[ToasterMan]

I think the reason some healers really don't like cleric stance is because of the 5 second cool down on it. That's an long time were I can't do any healing

[IttyBitty]

Soooo this is a game that wants a reputation for excluding a large proportion of players from its content does it? In that statement right there is elitism. I could think of more words to describe that type of behaviour too.

If me not wanting to party up with someone putting in 1/5th of the observable effort of the rest of the party makes me elitist, then by golly, I'll wear that title with distinction.

I'm sure you would take umbrage with a DPS or tank player using one action every 12.5 seconds and not AAing. Why should a healer effectively doing the same be treated any differently?

[HoodRat]

I think the reason some healers really don't like cleric stance is because of the 5 second cool down on it. That's an long time were I can't do any healing

The best solution to that is to learn. Learn your class so you know what options you have in case you need to drop cleric stance asap or things you can do to help you stay in cleric longer. Learn the fight. Learn when you need to heal and when it's safe to dps. But for some reason, people would rather spend their time on the forums complaining about having to dps instead of playing the game and learning how to do it. That's why this issue will never end unless SE does something about it.

[Zojha]

This is assuming it's a delay if the healer dose 0 DPS.

The only base assumptions I used were the definitions of the words "Hindrance" and "Delay" and that Dealing Damage speeds up the run as per developer's design. The rest is simply universal logic, which you either ignore or fail to comprehend.

Again: If dealing damage, in general, without regard to your role, skin color or shoe size nor the dev expectations, speeds up the run and that is purposely designed in such a way by the devs, then not dealing damage therefore slows down the run as per design of the devs via inversion. As per definition of the word "Delay", slowing down the run creates a delay, as would all other things that slow down the run, such as wipes.

If you cannot comprehend that logical step, I'm afraid I cannot argue with you.

[Dsync]

because I ve been quite polite with you, but you havent understood where I am coming from at all, and you continue to attack me personally, with no idea of the way I play. I dont know what your problem is, but its not good for the community, and its not savage you should stay out of, its more your attitude you should keep out of the game.

Yeah I've got a bad attitude here. It seems to trigger when I'm around toxic and problematic people (I can buzzword too) who go around using sinister sounding words to try to paint those against them as evil.


In response to craized: you are correct, it doesn't happen too often because most know how to play their job and at least put in some effort. Though for every 8 times I leave, there are 2 where it would be a kick. Not saying that I leave often, just that that would be the approx balance when I do leave of leave to kick ratio.

It's also really easy to multitask for some and they can concentrate on both their job and what the rest of the party are doing (even more so when you have full understanding of a role). Being aware of a healer doing next to nothing isn't going to drop my dps. It's not like these dungeons are mentally challenging. If I see someone in my group not even trying because they think they can use the rest of us as glorified A.I then I do not feel obliged to carry on with them. Preferred play style here is directly calling for people to be able to do less than others and for those others to have to accept it.

[Nalyna]

I had a few more thoughts occur to me today on this subject.

1. If other healers are anything like me, part of the reason they enjoy healing is because they feel like they have some sort of control over the outcome of dungeon/fight/etc. I'm lvl 53 WHM now and I've started doing 8 mans. I can honestly say I don't trust other healers fully. I'd rather heal myself and let them do most of the DPS (of course I still dps when I can). Today though the other healer told me that he would heal and asked me to holy because the tank was doing huge pulls. I released a little bit of my control issues and you know what? I had fun! The other healer (AST) was totally on top of things and correct. I was more help DPSing than I was healing.



2. I wonder if the stance dance is more difficult depending on how you choose to heal -- mouseovers, point and click, keybinds, etc. I'm using a Naga mouse with twelve buttons where the thumb rests. This allows me to do a ton of keybindings. Not just the traditional 1 = spell, 2 = spell. But ctrl+1, shift+1, etc. So for me, getting in and out of cleric is super easy. It's just shift+1 for me. And my damage spells are easy to use on the mouse too without having any issues with my healing spells. So, I guess my point is, I wonder if some healers struggle with dps because they aren't being very efficient with how they cast.

[Ghishlain]

The only base assumptions I used were the definitions of the words "Hindrance" and "Delay" and that Dealing Damage speeds up the run as per developer's design. The rest is simply universal logic, which you either ignore or fail to comprehend.

Again: If dealing damage, in general, without regard to your role, skin color or shoe size nor the dev expectations, speeds up the run and that is purposely designed in such a way by the devs, then not dealing damage therefore slows down the run as per design of the devs via inversion. As per definition of the word "Delay", slowing down the run creates a delay, as would all other things that slow down the run, such as wipes.

If you cannot comprehend that logical step, I'm afraid I cannot argue with you.

I comprehend exactly what you're saying and I respectfully disagree.

Let's go back to your definition:

hindrance - noun
A thing that provides resistance, delay, or obstruction to something or someone.

delay - verb
Make (someone or something) late or slow.

So, let's take a manufacturing line example. Someone wants to order 100 units of FFXIV to be manufactured. This normally takes the manufacturing line five days to complete. However, a technician found an efficiency in his work and got the line setup faster - therefore reducing the delivery time to four days. This is the opposite of a delay - you're now ahead of schedule.

So, a healer who does 0 DPS would be "normal expectations". A healer who adds DPS would now bring the clear time ahead of expected schedule.

Now, if it were the opposite. You could manufacturer 100 units in four days but an error from the technician cause the production to increase to five days. This is a delay.

In terms of FFXIV, a delay would occur if the healer's let someone / everyone die due to ineptitude. That would be a delay.

The one common thread and the absolute baseline anyone should be looking at when thinking about clear times is the developer's expectation. Anything AHEAD of that time frame is a bonus to the party dynamic. A 0-DPS healer therefore cannot delay a clear time unless they are so inept they caused a wipe.

Unless anyone can debunk this logic, there really isn't a leg anyone can stand about "delays" as any "delay" outside of the developer's intention is a selfish expectation of the duty finder requirements.

I will also say this about people arguing about the amount of effort a healer needs to complete their role versus a tank or DPS. It is unfair but it's the design of the game too. Until S-E starts forcing min ilvl requirements that will forcibly increase healer requirements or design fights to be random and spiky, healer's will always have less to do versus the DPS or Tanks because there is no such thing as "too much DPS". That's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

Does it make healer's who jump around and do nothing "the correct method of play"? Yes, unfortunately it does because for all technical aspects, they are correct.

Do you want people to stop doing this? Stop belittling the other healers and start encouraging them to play better.