Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Gemina]

Videos, eh? Ok, we can do those.

Allow me to showcase how Cleric can be so dangerous, and why a healer despite knowing the instance, can still be uncomfortable when it is with a group of randoms. And I am even going to throw myself under the boss, as I am the healer in this video. No need to even watch the whole video as the downfall happens in a very short time period of about 30 seconds, but feel free.

WHM PoV @ Keepers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4mQCbx6jjA

Skip to 1:00, it is right after the second boss fight. Allow me to give a quick run down:

- I buff the tank with stoneskin, and he pulls one pack of mobs, and then a second.
- I'm moving around a bit because of AoE, so I swiftcast Holy to start.
- After first Holy, tank is @60%. Good to cast another Holy right? Wrong
- I cast a second Holy, and during the cast, the tanks HP drops. I hop out of Cleric to hit him with Cure 2 and he dies (a window of 10 seconds) before I can get it off, and we wipe.

Should I have casted a cure instead of a second Holy? Why? The tank is @60%. Well above most healer's thresholds
Should I have casted Divine seal+Regen between Holys? Possibly. It might have allowed my Cure 2 to get off in time. Otherwise, the tank would have died in 11-12 seconds instead of 10.
Should the tank have popped one or more DMG mitigation CDs? They likely would have saved him.

One thing I do know without question is that if I was in full heal mode instead of trying to DPS here, there would not have been a wipe. This is what heals only healers are afraid of. Even if it is acceptable for you to encounter a wipe if everyone is at least trying to perform optimally, it might not be acceptable to the healer. We can't rely on a stranger tank to know how to use their CDs properly, we can't tackle a DPS standing in a red zone about to be take a huge hit to keep them out of it. The video shows me being a 100% reactive healer, because I have NO IDEA what these guys are going to do.

So if you want to showcase healers doing nothing, I am more than happy to do the same with a healer doing something. During the final fight with my love, Midgarsomr, I do a lot of standing around, especially when the telegraphs show up, waiting to see who dodges and who doesn't. I still managed to get squeeze some DPS in there, but not a whole lot and only when I deemed it totally safe.

Some people seriously need to take a chill pill. There is always lots of talk of how little healing is needed in expert roulette/60 dungeons, but I should remind the lot of you that not everyone is doing those, so we can't set the standard based on a small group of overall dungeons where everyone is ridiculously powerful, and hopefully aware.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Neither of them are good examples, they are both easy content these pro healer dps stances are loaded with posts trying to say that healers got nothing to do but dps. What needs to be shown is anew group learning a10s or something

You do realise the examples have a case of the healer being alive and a case of the healer being dead, right? Unless you consider a dead healer "pro"

[BokoToloko]

No, Healer is not about doing heals and damage. By that line of thought I could run a SMN or a BLM with Physick as cross-skill and claim I'm a healer. I can heal with Physick and do damage so, ¿why can't I be healer with that? Because my party can't survive with that unless we talk about easy stuf. That's the only thing that makes a healer be a healer. The only one. Because summoners can't make a party get through Nidhogg's Ahk Morn. SCH, WHM and AST can. The capability to make a party survive.

In high-end content, most of you can easily toggle between healing and attacking because most of you already know the mechanics and you assume everyone else, only-healers included, do so. But that's not true. If anything, the absolute majority on only-healers are first-timers who can't risk themselves to pull Cleric when the healing is needed. Not because they're lazy bums. And it's best this way since a healer with cleric at the worst time can cause wipe and make the team lose more time than with a healer that only casts heals.

[BokoToloko]

And before replying, I ALWAYS jump to cleric stance whenever I see healing is not required. So if you're going to point fingers at me, stick them somewhere else. Your noise , maybe. But I don't fall in the damn delusion you do. If I do DPS, is because healer is completely irrelevant in 80% of the content but I don't play to admire my thumbs (though I prefer to take over the raid healing and have the other healer stay in cleric most of the time). It's as simple as that. Healers are rarely needed except for filling the party requirement, specific phase in specific instances (e. g. Nidhogg) or really clueless party for the solely reason that said 80% is plain braindead. You could go with just 3 persons and have many dungeons done. Many trials need only 1 healer to heal. If Healer is DPSing is because the role is not needed at all in many parts and the "healer " has to fill the gap somehow, and the only way they can make something useful is just DPSing. Even without Cleric Stance, or without spells like Holy they will do that.

Not because it's their role, but because they need to do something since running a dungeon looking at your thumbs is NOT fun. And because, regardless of the role, party members are supposed to do SOMETHING, even if it's not really related to the role.

And if you think being only-healer is being lazy is because you didn't see what I saw: half-assed heals healer. Healers that only use Cure/Physick and they're annoyed if they have to heal anything that isn't the tank and in an easy dungeon like Toto-Rak. THAT's being lazy. Not being on a healing only stance on a A12 run.

[Feyona]

Videos, eh? Ok, we can do those.

Allow me to showcase how Cleric can be so dangerous

WHM PoV @ Keepers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4mQCbx6jjA

Skip to 1:00, it is right after the second boss fight. Allow me to give a quick run down:




Some people seriously need to take a chill pill. There is always lots of talk of how little healing is needed in expert roulette/60 dungeons, but I should remind the lot of you that not everyone is doing those, so we can't set the standard based on a small group of overall dungeons where everyone is ridiculously powerful, and hopefully aware.

This is a good post and much more representative of what can happen and happens all the time. Uncalled for and unwarranted stress put on healers. and in reply to Boko above, its so easy that we could force the summoner to heal because its in their tool kit so SE must have meant them to use it right?

[Feyona]

You do realise the examples have a case of the healer being alive and a case of the healer being dead, right? Unless you consider a dead healer "pro"

Think you misunderstood. Pro healer dps stance of the discussion meaning in favour of dps. And the fact the healer is dead shows even more of abiased view that healers got nothing to do

[Llus]

I see, my mistake then, and thank you for explaining.

No problem. The second video wasn't meant to be a joke on healers new to a piece of content - that kind of thing happens and is expected. The other players should have informed the new healer about the mechanics or at least asked if they had questions.

[Llus]

Videos, eh? Ok, we can do those.

Allow me to showcase how Cleric can be so dangerous, and why a healer despite knowing the instance, can still be uncomfortable when it is with a group of randoms. And I am even going to throw myself under the boss, as I am the healer in this video. No need to even watch the whole video as the downfall happens in a very short time period of about 30 seconds, but feel free.

WHM PoV @ Keepers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4mQCbx6jjA

Skip to 1:00, it is right after the second boss fight. Allow me to give a quick run down:

- I buff the tank with stoneskin, and he pulls one pack of mobs, and then a second.
- I'm moving around a bit because of AoE, so I swiftcast Holy to start.
- After first Holy, tank is @60%. Good to cast another Holy right? Wrong
- I cast a second Holy, and during the cast, the tanks HP drops. I hop out of Cleric to hit him with Cure 2 and he dies (a window of 10 seconds) before I can get it off, and we wipe.

Should I have casted a cure instead of a second Holy? Why? The tank is @60%. Well above most healer's thresholds
Should I have casted Divine seal+Regen between Holys? Possibly. It might have allowed my Cure 2 to get off in time. Otherwise, the tank would have died in 11-12 seconds instead of 10.
Should the tank have popped one or more DMG mitigation CDs? They likely would have saved him.

One thing I do know without question is that if I was in full heal mode instead of trying to DPS here, there would not have been a wipe. This is what heals only healers are afraid of. Even if it is acceptable for you to encounter a wipe if everyone is at least trying to perform optimally, it might not be acceptable to the healer. We can't rely on a stranger tank to know how to use their CDs properly, we can't tackle a DPS standing in a red zone about to be take a huge hit to keep them out of it. The video shows me being a 100% reactive healer, because I have NO IDEA what these guys are going to do.

So if you want to showcase healers doing nothing, I am more than happy to do the same with a healer doing something. During the final fight with my love, Midgarsomr, I do a lot of standing around, especially when the telegraphs show up, waiting to see who dodges and who doesn't. I still managed to get squeeze some DPS in there, but not a whole lot and only when I deemed it totally safe.

Some people seriously need to take a chill pill. There is always lots of talk of how little healing is needed in expert roulette/60 dungeons, but I should remind the lot of you that not everyone is doing those, so we can't set the standard based on a small group of overall dungeons where everyone is ridiculously powerful, and hopefully aware.

And you still stance danced the entire time, contributed to DPS, kept the party up, cleansed debuffs and overall did a pretty good job even if you were holding back to be safe and didn't maximize your DPS and had a ton of over-healing because of DPS getting thwapped. You'd have gotten my com for that. So you made a mistake during the pull leading up to the boss and it caused a wipe, it happens and I don't recall seeing anyone gripe at you about it. If I were the tank there I wouldn't have cared, you tried and you messed up.

[vigioX-Sun]

Healers that DPS are better is just that simple...why will you not want to be better?

[BokoToloko]

This is a good post and much more representative of what can happen and happens all the time. Uncalled for and unwarranted stress put on healers. and in reply to Boko above, its so easy that we could force the summoner to heal because its in their tool kit so SE must have meant them to use it right?

If a fairy can do all the heal in many instances with just Embrace, why not a SMN with Physick (and bonus point on MND because reasons)? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

/irony off