Quote Originally Posted by Xatsh View Post
Not going to copy paste the whole box since you commented on my quote deal... keeping the long copy paste out. Click the blue arrow on the comment to see the original post.

You can downplay all the negatives all you want but they exist and they are a major problem.

1) In XI if you went into a party and purposly screwed up, ninja looted, griefed other players you where shunned by the community... if you did it enough you where forced to do 2 things. Quit the game (since everyone would refuse to play with you) or pay for a server transfere (when they finally added 1). In WoW with dungeon finder the people you play with are basically tools for your progression, you will most likly not see them again, they are not on your server so no dmg to your rep in-game. You could mpk them all,
Kick fixes this on the spot. GMs also solve this.

steal loot,
Ingenious loot roll rules fixes this. There is no ninja looting in WOW anymore.

ruin a run and absolutely nothing came from it.
Getting kicked in wow gives you a 30 or 45 minute timer before you can queue again. Tack on another 5-45 minutes on that depending on your class and role.

5 peoples time was wasted and 1 person got away with a huge reward or a laugh. This is how the community is damaged, it removes the need to treat others with respect and removed the need to be honest. And if someone wants to deny it happens they have not played WoW recently... when I played after cata about 1/5 partys had this happen with finder.
Really? Because my experience with WOW's dungeon finder was nowhere near as bad. One out of 30 or 40 dungeon runs I had a douche who mouthed off a lot, and never a ninja looter or person who purposely griefed. People were nice (and generally surprised) when I talked to them with respect and didn't perpetuate the cycle of hatred by mouthing off at them.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that characters in FFXIV aren't created and deleted as frequently as in WOW. I can almost guarantee you that douches in FFXIV will gain infamy even if they were douches only to people outside of their server; FFXIV is an entire community, it's not bounded by a server. Expect to see a lot of "_____ did ____ bad thing in my random dungeon run" server cross-posts.

2) player A >>> "hey can you help with this dungeon", Linkshell >>> "just que up for it" , That there is destroying the purpose of a guild... and yea that happens a whole lot.
This happened before the dungeon finder, when WOW only had a basic group finder. "Just go LFG for it". It happened in FFXI too, especially with COP missions or anything that was difficult or tedious. It's human nature. At least the dungeon finder gave an option for people, instead of "Hey can you help with X?" "No" "Ok, logging off now, cya guys later".

The linkshell does not help anymore, you are expected to do it with the finder. A linkshell/Guild is an extended family which is suppose to come together to help everyone advance, The less reliable on guilds to do raids there is the more worthless the guild in general becomes. Even top guilds the above mentioned happens (although it will be to a lesser extent)and when it does it dmgs that bond which makes a guild something you want to be in. The we are here for the greater good of the group, not just as a means of advancement.
I get the feeling you didn't play WOW enough to judge this. There's plenty of guilds that are like families and shy away form the dungeon finder, and there were plenty of guilds BEFORE the dungeon finder that didn't act like a family. It's remained pretty much constant in WOW. WOW's community has always been harsh and unfriendly like that, which is why DF was made in the first place. It's a tool for people with few friends or who are not part of a good guild to still be able to play the game.

3) MMOs where born to remove the lobby system of the past, that was what made EQ and early mmos special and why they where designed in that way.
Before DF, the "lobby" was you sitting in town shouting for a group. Now the lobby is you doing whatever you want solo, while waiting for your queue timer.

It was no longer a dungeon crawler but a whole world. Arguing that this is not a regression in the online game genre is simple ignorance. You can prefer the old ways but it is by definition a regression of why mmos came about.
The dungeon finder allows people to spend MORE time outside of cities and outside of LFG chat, and actually playing the game. BC WOW and early Wrath WOW I was spending 20-30 minutes per dungeon run in town trying to find a group. Before I quit WOW, I was spending those 20-30 minutes doing my daily quests, finishing quests in a particular zone, PVPing, or doing whatever else there is to do in WOW as a solo player.

4) The you can choose not to use it argument is void. People will not purposly take the harder path, it is not human nature.
The pick-up groups made by the dungeon finder IS the harder path. There were still tons of people who did pre-made groups in WOW, and guilds still exist now for dungeons and raids (even with a raid finder). People LIKE doing dungeons with people they can get familiar with, with people that they KNOW are good, and with people that they can be friends with.

So if dungeon finder exist people will use it. Especially if it becomes the norm and people cannot make partys effectively in other ways. Basically it forces everyone to use it. Go into WoW and shout for a party in Ogrimar or Stormwind or something to try to get a dungeon together... I guarantee you will get about 20 responses with something like "Use the Dungeon finder noob."
I can tell you right now that it doesn't happen. People will jump at the opportunity when you said "premade". People f***ing love premades. Have you played WOW recently at all?

It is the same thing as the party search atm in XIV, IT works perfectly, but the community refuses to use it. Therefor it forces everyone to make partys in another way. Same will happen with finder.
No it's not. FFXIV party search is an unintuitive, boring piece of crap that doesn't offer ANY advantages over the "norm" (shouting). Go play WOW some more, you're not qualified to criticize DF because you don't know how it affected the community at all.