Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Alleo]

Kicking a player for "low dps" in an area where there are no "DPS checks" (or rather dps checks are in fact being met) ...

... is 100% unjustifiable.

You accomplish nothing by bad mouthing players or vote kicking them, except halting their advancement in gear acquisition, learning their job, and often times, encouraging them to flat out quit.

You know in dungeons without any DPS check at all I will not kick anyone..at least if they attacking..if someone is just standing around and doing nothing at all they will be kicked as fast as possible. But the dungeon the OP was in is Sohr Khai. This dungeon has DPS checks on two bosses. A very good healer might be able to heal the group through the horse without any walls left (and believe me I had those situations too and it was not really a nice fight). At the end boss if you have bad DPS you will lose all platforms and die.

We do not know how bad/good the OP was. Nobody does which means that we only can guess. Maybe it was completely mean to kick them but maybe they were just so bad that people saw that they wont manage to beat the bosses? On top of that they did not have cross class skills which you can see if you take a look into the profile and see if they have leveled the class or not and they also wore the wrong gear which you can also see if you inspect the people. Maybe the trash pulls were dieing so slowly that the mentor noticed that the dps is low. The OP wrote it like this was said to no one specific so the mentor seemed to either not know who was the one doing less or was only noticing that something was wrong (which you can do really fast without any parser if you did the dungeons often enough). The OP spoke that it might be them because they are new and low geared (maybe nothing would have happened if they did not say that?) and after that they got a kick.

First: He/She does not even know if its the mentor that started the kick. Just because they were the one that wrote it first does not mean its them. Maybe another checked their gear after the mentor said it and started the kick?
Second: There has to be at least another person in there that clicked yes, so at least for another person it was way to low. Since you can only queue for mentor roulette solo it could not have been a friend.
Third: The exact same thing happens again after that with other people..isnt that a bit strange? Doesnt that hint that maybe its really the OPs fault?

In the end I barely kick people and they really need to be either afk or we wont be able to finish the dungeon with them, for me to kick them. (I am not talking about taking 20 minutes more..I am meaning not finishing at all) I am quite sure that the time of three people is more valuable in that situation than the one that got kicked. Especially in a lvl 60 dungeon..nobody that is there can really say that they are new. And if its clear that they are just not ready for it than I see no problem with kicking them. The dungeons/trials after that will be even harder..especially after Sohr Khai and carrying them through one dungeon means that there will be a high chance that they are carried through the others as well. Getting kicked might not be the nicest feeling in the world (but also not the end of it) but maybe this will give some the motivation to look at themselves and maybe get better.

And just to be clear..since some people seems to thing that we want people playing on raid tier level..this is not the case and I am not sure how some read it that way. There is still quite the nice middle ground between raid tier DPS and not passing DPS checks.

I know I'm only lvl 48 but I can honestly say I have never got in an argument, got kicked, or kicked someone. People should be able to play the way they want to play. I just don't get why someone would complain in roulette. You know your gonna get matched with people of all gear lvl and all skill lvl's. if you want to speed run shouldn't you do the dungeons in your own group.

Well you are still in the leveling process which often means that people are way more forgiving for mistakes or bad numbers. The problem is that saying that everyone should play how they want means that you will than be okay with people only hitting auto-attack..or those bad ice mages BLM. If you have such DDs in your group some dungeons turns from taking longer to not able to finish them at all. And nobody wants to waste 90 minutes of their life for nothing. [Or having healers that only use one spell for healing as the healer in the vault. ]

And yes as soon as you go into duty finder you will meet different kinds of people and play styles but this goes for both sides. If you want to speedrun and you land in a group were three other people want to take their time..well you either take your time or you can go. Because in the duty finder you will have to do it the way how the majority of your group wants it. But that also means that if you land in a group that wants to speedrun it and you cant keep up or just dont feel like it..well either follow the majority or you might have to leave. (The GMs did say that a difference in playstyle is a reason to kick someone, even if some might abuse it)

Also the argument about going with friends can always be said to the other side too. If you dont want to speedrun, do big pull or other things that probably the majority of the duty finder groups wants, well one can always run with friends. I for example would not go into duty finder as a tank. I am really bad at this and I am also far away from being comfortable with it. I would never go in a dungeon with strangers because I dont want to waste their time.

What I want to say with my big wall of text: People should try to consider both sides. New people should maybe ask themselves if they are truly ready for the next dungeon/trial be it skill/equipment and veteran players should not try to kick someone for making some mistakes. And always try to be nice and explain your reason.

But also really important imo: If you are at lvl60 and in HW story content please stop using the "I am new"card to explain your mistakes. If you are new to the dungeon and did not know the mechanics than normally people will not hate you for it. (Most people, I would say, will only get annoyed if you make those mistakes again and again, like learning nothing from them) But if you are at lvl60 and just simply bad at your job dont try to defend yourself with "this is my first class". Everyone that is at that level has quite some hours behind them and if you only have one class at 60, that also means that you should be used to it at least a bit at that max level. Try to look at yourself, ask yourself if this is truly good enough and maybe train to get better. This makes things way easier for everyone.

[Daniolaut]

Third: The exact same thing happens again after that with other people..isnt that a bit strange? Doesnt that hint that maybe its really the OPs fault?

It happening twice, to me doesnt automatically make it the "OPs fault" in my mind no.

When I first returned from a break a month or more after Heavensward was released, I also was kicked twice, except I was given no reason. In fact, I have cleared many endgame fights prior to echo being introduced, and most shortly after they were released (within 1-2 weeks) as multiple different jobs. So to say its because of "low dps" is nonsense. "So to say its the OPs fault" is nonsense.

Which leads into my next point:

No one is expecting topnotch skill. We just expect you to make an effort.

I say this not to gloat, but to possibly ensure the reader, that I do have experience playing the game:

All of my /playtime is actual playtime, not "afk" in endgame areas/Limsa, and I clock in at 9,400 hours.

From my experience, people *do* in fact kick people who are trying all the time...

And if they don't kick them, they will bad mouth them the entire time, or at the end of the dungeon.

There is a reason "git gud" is "popular." Its interesting that people are here pretending that, the phrase here isnt a thing. I mean literally the person who I am conversing with the most has it as his signature.

Its literally the main reason I have regularly *not* been subscribed to the game. It's not entertaining to constantly have to find ways to avoid this type of player base.

To make another IRL equivalent of Mentoring, it's like being in IT,

Actually a real life, actual relevant example, would be trying to teach your girlfriend/boyfriend how to play Mortal Kombat, and they are sitting there eating skittles, and you snatch their controller out of their hand..

"because they arent even trying."

players I think are losing what they are doing: playing a game.

Words right out of my mouth.

[bardaboo]

Reading here and there, I feel like the entitlement ran so high that some community now demands everyone playing top notch even when on DF.

Let's not forget the entitlement of those players who don't try/ don't care and expect everyone to carry them.

[Kio]

Honestly they should never have put the mount in as a reward. It only attracts these type of people and this type of behavior. Mentoring should be a labour of love and nothing more. I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

[bardaboo]

It's possible to have the Mentor crown inside a dungeon and not be running mentor roulette btw.

[Juicinators]

There's a different between someone hitting auto attack and someone just not knowing what they are doing. I would say most people that just go in to dungeons and hit random buttons are mainly playing for fun. I am ok with that. All I'm saying is we all can't expect everyone to be on the same lvl in roulette. And I will never get mad or upset if I get a bad group. It also probably helps that I will never know if any other class is playing great cause I only have time to learn one. As long as mobs are dieing and no ones dieing than I really don't care. If we just couldn't finish I would see if the group wanted to disband and re-que. I wouldn't kick someone for it.

[Alex_LoneWolf]

To make another IRL equivalent of Mentoring, it's like being in IT, trying desperately to get someone to understand the basics of using the mouse to right click, and them getting angry at you because that's not how they want to use their mouse. And then complaining that you didn't help them when you finally give up on them.

As someone who's done IT stuff before, I don't think I've ever gotten a person who's mad at me for right clicking with a mouse while teaching them some basic concept. They usually give it a go and I've never actually encountered what you've mentioned.

The same is basically true for when I've taught people mechanics in dungeons.

[Alex_LoneWolf]

Let's not forget the entitlement of those players who don't try/ don't care and expect everyone to carry them.

Although I will admit to this happening (once got a MRD in Sastasha that wouldn't even hit anything, just jumped around, I vote kicked before last boss), by the sounds of the OP's post, they were trying to do something. They weren't looking for a carry.

[Daniolaut]

Doesnt matter what anyone says or thinks.

This person was 100% in the right to participate in the dungeon. (For the *fact* they met the requirements to enter.)


The dungeon unlocked for them, they met the item level requirement, and clearly, if they took the time to express their negative treatment, and follow up with responses here, they most likely have taken the time to read their job actions.

Whats also apparent, is any group they were in before didnt encourage the player to try to focus on gearing up more before proceeding, and the game itself doesnt notify you of the importance of cross class abilities.

The only time you are justified in kicking another player, is them breaching the terms of service, being "AFK" being offline, or harassing the party members.

"Doing poor dps" is *not* along those lines. (Just auto attacking and moving between mobs is "AFK")







To place any blame on this player is absolutely unjustifiable.


Any notion from other people stating they didnt go "beyond" the clearly labeled requirements to enter the dungeon is player created, and vote kicking them based on player created requirements is a breach in the terms of service.

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers





If this is in any way, not correct, then Square-Enix themselves are not upholding their outlined terms of service or justifiable reasons for using vote kick. In which case, they should re-define the duty finder system, vote kick system, and or terms of service.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

If they didnt have the dps to clear the bosses. Is that not disruption of the other 3 players?