It’s also all but a given that the expansion will include at least two new jobs.

[ADVSS]

Not if their shields don't stack :^)

What if they use more bubble type abilities instead of shields? Shields kinda overrated hp max increases are pretty godly lol

[Rennies]

Isn't that basically a shield though :l


Bubble=Visible extra health
Shield=Invisible extra health

[Rennies]

Even if Scholar's shields could stack I don't think people would be in that much of a rush to run Double Scholar. The class is good and all, but White Mage and Ast do have some very strong perks (aka regens) that make them more suited for main healing so to speak. Running x2 Scholar is still the worst healing comp.

Now if they gave Scholars the regens that Whm and Ast have then they would be broken and everyone would want x2 Scholars for everything.

2 White mages are much worse imo, but I guess it doesn't matter since 2 of the same healer will never be optimal as long as Square gives half a damn about balance

[mp-please]

Even if Scholar's shields could stack I don't think people would be in that much of a rush to run Double Scholar. The class is good and all, but White Mage and Ast do have some very strong perks (aka regens) that make them more suited for main healing so to speak. Running x2 Scholar is still the worst healing comp.

Now if they gave Scholars the regens that Whm and Ast have then they would be broken and everyone would want x2 Scholars for everything.

I wasn't talking of 2 SCHs, i was talking of 1 SCH with a class as powerful as SCH. It doesn't even need to be able to shield, as long it outputs the same dps with the lack of mp dependency that SCH has as a offhealer and both WHM and AST are dead.

[Risvertasashi]

Recap still. Earlier they talked about DPS queue times and have been watching statistics during 3.x so they felt it would work out okay. People who play heal/tank typically stayed that role.

Well, I'm not really sure what to say. Kind of called it, didn't foresee them adding only DPS jobs though. At least we'll get nice queue times? No new toys for us healers... but hopefully they'll balance healers slightly better this time.

[ADVSS]

Well, I'm not really sure what to say. Kind of called it, didn't foresee them adding only DPS jobs though. At least we'll get nice queue times? No new toys for us healers... but hopefully they'll balance healers slightly better this time.

after alot of these next healer, next tank debates, I came to the conclusion that we would see 2 dps this time around. I am sorry healers and tank mains dont get a new toy but trust me, im not even sure how they could implement a new tank or healer that wouldnt either push a formal one out forever, by being competitive with one guaranteed one by being designed to compete with it, and not make them similar enough to warrant being another job. With SAM being dps though, the number of iconic potential tanks left might be what 2?

[Risvertasashi]

im not even sure how they could implement a new tank or healer that wouldnt either push a formal one out forever, by being competitive with one guaranteed one by being designed to compete with it, and not make them similar enough to warrant being another job.

That pandora's box is already open, though. If we still only had 2 tanks/healers... yeah. As is, there's already the #deletepld #deletewhm crowd out there, and even if SE gives both jobs a really nice buff, then someone else will be on bottom.

[Ariane]

I am sorry healers and tank mains dont get a new toy but trust me, im not even sure how they could implement a new tank or healer that wouldnt either push a formal one out forever

How is it really any different with DPS jobs though? There's going to be what? 9 DPS jobs in total now fighting over only 4 slots. 55% of the DPS jobs will be left out because there's always going to be some combo of jobs that works out to be the best. Its going to get worst no matter what if they keep adding new jobs, but with rate they are going, they are making it worst for the DPS faster for some reason.

[Fernosaur]

How is it really any different with DPS jobs though?

While I agree that there are DPS compositions that are more optimal and there's some DPS jobs that you definitely want (NIN for example), it's easier to put sub-optimal DPS compositions together without it actually hindering your progress to the point where it's obviously noticeable.

The same can't be said for healers and tanks. Remember that fiasco with PLD back in 3.0? PLDs were literally holding their groups back. Granted, by now there is no job that holds the group back in the way PLDs used to, but WHM and PLD most definitely make things uncomfortable and awkward for their partner. PLD in A12S forces the WAR to tank the boss for a while, where DRK gives no shits at all and puts out better DPS. Comparatively, WHM's horrid MP regeneration and lack of utility is so, so very laughable that you really have to wonder why anyone would want to bring one other than just blind love and loyalty to the job and its iconic status. Sure, they DPS "harder," but it's not sustainable at all, and there is absolutely nothing else they can do for their healing partner, unlike SCH and AST who can support each other very well.

That said, MNK isn't in a good spot right now, but bringing a MNK doesn't make you feel like your entire party is somehow gimped like WHM does.

[Risvertasashi]

That said, MNK isn't in a good spot right now, but bringing a MNK doesn't make you feel like your entire party is somehow gimped like WHM does.

Debatable. MNK needs goad so that means NIN is pretty much a requirement (And also rules out that other undesirable that needs goad, Paladin, but at least Paladin doesn't take DRG's spot). And without DRG you're missing battle litany which is a pretty huge deal for effective openers and pushing phases, not to mention that piercing debuff that makes those mch+bard wombo combos oh so so sweet...

MNK not only doesn't bring much to the table for the others, you have to build your comp around it to make it work. So it kinda does gimp your whole party and that's why a lot of people take a dim view of MNK for raids.