It’s also all but a given that the expansion will include at least two new jobs.

[Fernosaur]

Debatable. MNK needs goad so that means NIN is pretty much a requirement (And also rules out that other undesirable that needs goad, Paladin, but at least Paladin doesn't take DRG's spot). And without DRG you're missing battle litany which is a pretty huge deal for pushing phases, not to mention that piercing debuff that makes those mch+bard wombo combos oh so so sweet...

To be completely fair, the MNK in our raid group has needed TP like once or twice ever. Not even in A9S back when it was new and didn't die in under 5 minutes. Granted, she's not "best MNK in the server" level, but ending every fight over 2k is I think pretty good for a midcore player.

There's enough jumps and inactivity phases in most fights that TP isn't a concern even for PLD, and if the case ever comes up, Spire can help.

Even with what you mentioned, though, it's still not comparable to how PLD forces the off-tank to change their gameplan in A12S, or how WHM offers literally nothing to the other healer. Of course, MNK is far from being optimal, but it's not as horribly inconvenient as the other two can be.

[Risvertasashi]

Even with what you mentioned, though, it's still not comparable to how PLD forces the off-tank to change their gameplan in A12S, or how WHM offers literally nothing to the other healer. Of course, MNK is far from being optimal, but it's not as horribly inconvenient as the other two can be.

I mean I can turn that argument right back at you. WHM can allow the other healer exceptional DPS uptime, etc. WHM is far from trash, it's just a "Why take one when the others offer so much more."

Same deal with MNK. Yes you can do the raids with a MNK but MNK destroys optimal compositions and lowers the whole raid's DPS. If you don't care about that, more power to you. But a good number of people do.

PLD is probably the worst off, yeah, if there's a lot of magic damage it's just kind of like... why even bother.

[Fernosaur]

The thing with our argument is how the impact of these jobs' problems affect different levels of play. At high levels of play, of course MNK is gonna be a liability because of how it destroys optimal composition, but it's for the most part perfectly fine in mid-levels of play.

The problem with WHM is that it feels like a liability even in mid-levels of play, specially with the current status of healer balance.

AST has an assured spot now instead of SCH, because really no one wants to miss Balance. SCH doesn't bring Balance, but its utility allows for both healers to DPS more. (As a parenthesis, the whole deal about WHM enabling the other healer to DPS more is a big myth, tbh. If you go for a full MH/OH mentality, all three healers can pull that off and let their partner go full-DPS, even Scholar. Of the three healers, the one that actually enables long DPS windows not only for themselves, but for both healers is SCH, NOT White Mage, due to the fairy's utility).

White Mage has absolutely nothing going for them right now other than the base minimum requirements for their role, which is a shame because it's a great and iconic job in the franchise. You only have to look at the many WHM mains being completely disappointed and beat over their favorite class being crap to realize this. It's even more gruelling because there's only three healer and tank jobs, yet one of them in both roles is completely pushed aside because of how bad they are.

[Blonde_Huntress]

I really want SB to bring WHM some love that it so desperately (and rightfully) deserves.

Never know...I have a feeling WHM is going to get some nice buffs in about 4 months or so.