Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[DPZ2]

tl;dr

You did everything except answer the ACTUAL QUESTION. Read the post, think clearly, and then answer

[DPZ2]

tl;dr

You did everything except ANSWER THE QUESTION. Please read again, and get off the high horse of "not doing DPS", and direct your answer to what I actually asked.

Sheesh.

Two of you can't take time to parse words, so far.

[DPZ2]

Dungeons are tuned to be easy for everyone, and I doubt this has anything to do with whether or not they are looking at tank/healer DPS, rather just scaling everything down to suit testing.

At least you didn't go off into la-la land about 'requiring DPS'. Not that you answered my question, mind you.

What is wrong with healer DPS without using Cleric Stance in an instance? It's still DPS, and the healer is 'always casting' in that case.

[Malzian]

You did everything except ANSWER THE QUESTION. Please read again, and get off the high horse of "not doing DPS", and direct your answer to what I actually asked.

Sheesh.

Two of you can't take time to parse words, so far.

Oh so you literally mean, "Why use Cleric Stance to DPS?" and not just "Why DPS?"

Honestly the answer is simple... Cleric Stance makes your damage spells do more damage because of the fact that they're based off of Int and not Mind. If you're not in Cleric Stance when you're DPSing as a healer, you're nerfing your damage as much as an OT in tank stance in a fight with no adds. If they ever make healer damage spells based off of mind, then Cleric Stance is moot. Until then... You should be using it if you're DPSing to get the most effect out of your spells.

[Greedalox]

At least you didn't go off into la-la land about 'requiring DPS'. Not that you answered my question, mind you.

What is wrong with healer DPS without using Cleric Stance in an instance? It's still DPS, and the healer is 'always casting' in that case.

Aye as the guy above said, it's a powerful tool in your kit that gives your spells oomph :3 Cleric Stance makes your cast for cast DPS spells immensely more powerful. Why be ABCing with less powerful spells if you're ABCing anyways is what it really boils down to.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

You did everything except answer the ACTUAL QUESTION. Read the post, think clearly, and then answer

My post answers properly in context of the discussion that was at hand.

If you're referring to what this guy answered...

Oh so you literally mean, "Why use Cleric Stance to DPS?" and not just "Why DPS?"

Honestly the answer is simple... Cleric Stance makes your damage spells do more damage because of the fact that they're based off of Int and not Mind. If you're not in Cleric Stance when you're DPSing as a healer, you're nerfing your damage as much as an OT in tank stance in a fight with no adds. If they ever make healer damage spells based off of mind, then Cleric Stance is moot. Until then... You should be using it if you're DPSing to get the most effect out of your spells.

... then that specification wasn't particularly brought to mind since it should be obvious due to how cleric stance and healer stats work.



The point of my answer still stands.
Once the party has no more need of support, then the only thing left to do is do dps.

[Malzian]

... then that specification wasn't particularly brought to mind since it should be obvious due to how cleric stance and healer stats work.

*Cough*Peopledon'treadtheirskills.*Cough*

[ElHeggunte]

What is wrong with healer DPS without using Cleric Stance in an instance? It's still DPS, and the healer is 'always casting' in that case.

This has grown into such a long thread that I may have overlooked it, but has anyone really been arguing specifically about the use of Cleric Stance or is this something you keep asking as a "gotcha" question?

And I personally said a few pages back that DPSing outside of CS is better than not DPSing at all even if it's not very efficient.

[Saito_S]

This has grown into such a long thread that I may have overlooked it, but has anyone really been arguing specifically about the use of Cleric Stance or is this something you keep asking as a "gotcha" question?

And I personally said a few pages back that DPSing outside of CS is better than not DPSing at all even if it's not very efficient.

Yep. In keeping with my repeated insistence that someone who is legit trying, but is struggling for whatever reason (new, anxiety, disability/limitation, whatever) is a totally different story than someone who just can't be arsed, I will absolutely say that if someone wants to try some DPS'ing as a healer, to expand their skillset and do something with that downtime, but they want to just keep Cleric's off, at least initially, then hey, go for it. Putting in the effort is a huge part of this - someone who fits the above description, who is trying their best but doesn't really do much DPS or keeps Cleric's off, will get a lot more respect for me even if they aren't able to put out much DPS, than someone who is experienced and fully comfortable with their role, and literally just stands around or dances when no healing is required because "healers shouldn't DPS!"

It's not about demanding perfect play from everyone at all times - not something I'd be able to demand anyway, given that I'm far from a great NIN or anything else myself. It's about effort, attitude, and the fact that it really is not okay for 3/4s of the party to have to work much harder than 1/4 for no other reason than "because you're a healer."

[Lambdafish]

At least you didn't go off into la-la land about 'requiring DPS'. Not that you answered my question, mind you.

What is wrong with healer DPS without using Cleric Stance in an instance? It's still DPS, and the healer is 'always casting' in that case.

I didn't answer the question because I was simply correcting the misnomer in your post (about how the devs don't acknowledge healer DPS). I'll answer it now though if you like.

As many have said, the damage done when outside of cleric stance is actually pretty poor and insignificant, and being in cleric stance is a HUGE boost to this damage, so there is very little reason why DPSing outside of cleric stance is viable. I will however say that when I was learning to DPS as a healer, I didn't use cleric stance, I would throw a few DPS spells out while out of cleric stance to see how long was needed before the next cure, gauging my flexibility, and allowing me learn my toolkit better, then I wove in cleric stance once I was confident.

The difference between this and not DPSing is that I am trying, and learning healer the right way. The DPS might be insignificant, but the process is important, and it is something that all healers should go through, rather than stopping at basic heals.

Edit: Also, for the record about your "requiring DPS la la land" comment, TaranTatsuuchi is correct, but perhaps misunderstood your question. DPSing as a healer is an expectation because you should be casting on every GCD (Always Be Casting), and healers don't have much else relevant to do. She even backed up her claim with pretty damning evidence, which puts a lot of the anti-dps arguments into perspective

I'm pretty sure the quote in question was that they count both tank and dps. The only concession was that for the Mt, they only count the MT's dps as just enough to hold hate, with no such concession for the off tank.

Maybe, I haven't seen the exact quote in a while, but it doesn't change the tone of their statement, and the reasons as to why this is the case.