Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6
Results 51 to 55 of 55
  1. #51
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    PLDs having a "simple" stable rotation, WARs having "primal" stack generation and use that allow for big hits, and DRK buffing various abilities and attacks with Dark Arts are the primary things that distinguish the 3 tanks from each other.
    First problem with that. Nothing you actually describes as any real impact on how you tank. All of these refers to how do they do damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Hallowed Ground/Holmgang/Living Dead is another example.
    But, most of the time, they're still used in the same way and at the same time. And they don't really matter when you chose which tank you'll want in your party. The "tanking" gameplay could be much more unique between the three tanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Lets says SE wanted to give all 3 tanks a full party protection skill like the Paladin's Divine Veil.
    Then you'll have people beginning to crunch numbers to determine which "party protection" skill is the best, depending on potency and CD...and then still choosing WAR
    As a reminder, they already have a "party protection" skill. For WAR, it's called Storm's Path, and for DRK, it's called Delirium, since party wide AoE are frequently magical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    WAR being the dps tank, PLD being the physical tank and DRK being the magic tank are kinda where the whole imbalance problem comes from.
    Not really. The imbalance comes from WAR's main contribution being offensive while the other two are defensive. Let's get real, no one cares what any tank bring on a pure defensive spot, since even the lowest defensive tank needs to be able to main tank anything. So, you have to design three ways of contributing offensively to the party.
    (1)

  2. #52
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    First problem with that. Nothing you actually describes as any real impact on how you tank. All of these refers to how do they do damage.
    No, these refer to how they play and both Warrior and Dark Knight use those mechanics to help their survivability. Inner Beast is War stack use that mitigates the damage taken. DA+Souleater and DA+DD both impact how the Dark Knight tanks (though most Dark Knights miss it).


    But, most of the time, they're still used in the same way and at the same time. And they don't really matter when you chose which tank you'll want in your party.
    Which is intentional and a good thing. Tank selection should be "We have a player who prefers to play Tank A, lets find a player who prefers to play Tank B/C/D and then we will be good to go tankwise."

    The "tanking" gameplay could be much more unique between the three tanks.
    Bad idea. More unique tanking gameplay methods make games far harder to balance. Please remember that Warrior actually had problems tanking in endgame during 2.0 due to Paladin being the mitigation cooldown tank and Warrior being the self-heal tank. They fixed the problem by giving Warrior mitigation abilities.

    Then you'll have people beginning to crunch numbers to determine which "party protection" skill is the best, depending on potency and CD...and then still choosing WAR
    As a reminder, they already have a "party protection" skill. For WAR, it's called Storm's Path, and for DRK, it's called Delirium, since party wide AoE are frequently magical.
    And Paladin's have Rage of Halone for reducing physical damage done, but Storm's Path, Reprisal and Delirium can not help when the boss becomes untargetable or the damage comes from a source that is not effected by the boss' stats.

    Divine Veil, PvE Thrill of War and "Soul Anchor" on the other hand would be very good at helping the party survive post add phase LB attacks.
    Not really. The imbalance comes from WAR's main contribution being offensive while the other two are defensive. Let's get real, no one cares what any tank bring on a pure defensive spot, since even the lowest defensive tank needs to be able to main tank anything. So, you have to design three ways of contributing offensively to the party.
    Which is exactly what you quoted. Dps tank= offensive Magi/physical tank = defensive. Also Paladin's were getting left out of A1S to A4S progression parties due to the later fights being more magic damage heavy which penalized Paladins.
    (2)

  3. #53
    Player
    ADVSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,397
    Character
    Advent Shadowsoul
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Honestly though how crippled were pld in those fights when they came out in terms of total mitigation over drk?(utilizing SS and DV when no ;darkmind' cd was available?)
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    Llus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    326
    Character
    Agret Fury
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Lets says SE wanted to give all 3 tanks a full party protection skill like the Paladin's Divine Veil. They could give WAR a version of PvP's Thrill of War (Increases maximum HP of self and nearby party members by 10%/20% and restores HP by 10%/20%) and DRK an ability (lets call it Soul Anchor) that prevents nearby party members from dropping below 1 HP as long as the Dark Knight is alive and they have the buff. All three do basically the same job but each does it differently.
    PF LF Tank: Must be DRK and WAR as Healers are going to DPS through this AoE phase, use Soul Anchor + Living Dead and we'll just top everyone off with some AoE healing + Thrill of War afterward
    (0)

  5. #55
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Bad idea. More unique tanking gameplay methods make games far harder to balance. Please remember that Warrior actually had problems tanking in endgame during 2.0 due to Paladin being the mitigation cooldown tank and Warrior being the self-heal tank.
    The problem wasn't that WAR was a self-heal tank, but that it was a bad self-heal tank. Tying the improved healing received and enmity to wrath was stupid, WAR had no "mitigation" skill except Thrill of Battle and didn't even had a "I won't die" skill. You can do a self healing tank easily. First, Convalescence should be a MRD native skill and on a shorter CD...it should basically be the reactive equivalent of Rampart, Inner Beast could retain its basic effect but the excess HP should increase your max HP for a short duration...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    And Paladin's have Rage of Halone for reducing physical damage done, but Storm's Path, Reprisal and Delirium can not help when the boss becomes untargetable or the damage comes from a source that is not effected by the boss' stats.
    Considering very few AoE are actually physical, RoH is hardly a part wide mitigation. And Storm's Path directly reduces damage, so it always works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Which is exactly what you quoted.
    No, it's not. What I said is that each tank should bring the same overall party DPS. WAR thanks to personal DPS, and PLD/DRK through party utility, precisely, offensive party utility.
    (0)

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6