Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

[Lilyth]

The real question is why are you even using FS to begin with on opener #2 if you are planning to use only 4 GCDs under Perfect Balance?

@topic I'd personally favor opener #2 (with a few changes). Besides FS being a pain to do before every opener, #2 allows you to fit a buffed fracture and ToD under the same DK rotation, without dropping either DK or TwS.

[SunnyHirose]

The real question is why are you even using FS to begin with on opener #2 if you are planning to use only 4 GCDs under Perfect Balance?

It's not strictly necessary, but I do recommend doing it for most cases since (1) Perfect Balance has a skill lockout time that isn't 0 and (2) losing the 5th GCD to lag / a scrubby tank isn't the most common situation (I'm assuming 3.5 changes made the lag bit even less common), but a lot can go wrong in 10 seconds. That is not to say be dogmatic about it; if pre-pull FS is being a distraction to you, or you suspect a tank has Leeroy tendencies, then surely you should drop it.

[Lilyth]

snip

It's not that it's a distraction, it's a completely unecessary distraction at this point. People are only "used" to do it because of the previous GL duration that required a final Snap Punch in order to keep GL up. After the GL change, people still use it because.... why not, it still works right?

Also, the 0.3 secs PB animation is a non issue if you use it 0.3 secs pre pull.

[Krindor]

It's not that it's a distraction, it's a completely unecessary distraction at this point. People are only "used" to do it because of the previous GL duration that required a final Snap Punch in order to keep GL up. After the GL change, people still use it because.... why not, it still works right?

Also, the 0.3 secs PB animation is a non issue if you use it 0.3 secs pre pull.

You have a 10 sec pull macro in any type of content you do with a group, if you are with pugs would you trust them with pre pull popping? FS is a non-issue and it just makes it safer. It also allows a ST start instead of running in.

[Lilyth]

It's a matter of preference, really. I'm all about efficiency so I dont see why use several seconds preparing FS if I don't gain anything with it. And personally I never ran into any problems by not using it. If there's a count down, PB works. If pug tanks pull without warning, PB is even better than trying to FS to get the opener right.

Regarding ST, I'd also rather use it fully buffed by gl3/b4b/IR/TwS/DK+more instead of using it naked on the pull. You don't see Goons engaging with spinershatter for example.
It always boggles my mind when I see monks starting with ST even on fights like A9s and Zurvan Extreme. And yes, this happens a lot.

[Krindor]

snip

You have to hold it for roughly 20 seconds before you can use it in the opener, that's 2/3 of it's cooldown. Fully buffed it's 2.66(1*1.3*1.4*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1) times the damage. If you use it on pull you get 1 + 1.87(1.3*1.19*1.1*1.1) = 2.87 within 30 seconds. So unless you're losing out on another ST pulling with ST is higher pot(On average 2/3 of the time).

There's nothing to do during the pull macro anyways so there's no reason not to FS.

[SunnyHirose]

Also, the 0.3 secs PB animation is a non issue if you use it 0.3 secs pre pull.

Is it really that fast now? I wonder what that does to people who were using PB ST. (This is a serious question; my computers don't do video very well.)

Anyway, where I'm coming from is that I view good DPS as a habit, not an opener; I obsess over getting optimal openers and rotations not because optimality is possible but only to the extent that it forms good habits. There are many superstar DPS rankings (any MMORPG) that quite frankly don't do what is optimal because they have a strong set of enough good habits that it doesn't matter. My melee partner for two years does himself use a Form Shift opener. It comes in handy because this is a distinct likelihood: PB > Lightswitch rave at NSA datacenter > Snap-Snap-Snap-Snap um where'd PB go. In a situation like that, his OODA loop is well oriented to continue with a no-PB opener, where someone who did not Form Shift would need more GCDs to achieve GL3.

Monk, more than most jobs, involves keeping your head in the game. Everyone else stands around popping fireworks during a 2hr? This is permitted unto them, but monks are a li'l busy with Chakra and Form Shift. I see benefits in extending Form Shift preparedness mentality to a Perfect Balance opener, even if it isn't strictly necessary. It isn't strictly necessary to maximize our DPS either, but with the view that good DPS is a habit and not a conscious decision, we try (in part) because it feels right and comes natural. So if this is not how you function, you do you, don't fix it since it's not broken; when Bruce Lee says, "the easy way is the right way" he does not mean to be lazy, of course, but that what comes fastest to us and what benefits us the most need to be in alignment, rather than to be tied down to a style.

[Lilyth]

snip

ST fully buffed is a little more than that. Between all your buffs, pots, possible raid buffs (Trick Attack, Hyper Charge, Battle Litany, The Balance), not to mention it's almost a guaranteed crit with optimal gear and IR, using it naked at pull is at most a convenience that most monks still like to have. Nothing wrong with that, and the dps difference caused by one way or the other is so barely noticable, that we would be better off arguing why not all monks are Highlanders 'cause of the +STR class bonus. However, engaging battles like a9s and ZurvanX with ST at pull is boderline non-sense and completely unecessary.

You can also jump around spamming the new Valentine's Day emote during pull macro, there's no reason not to. :P

My melee partner for two years does himself use a Form Shift opener. It comes in handy because this is a distinct likelihood: PB > Lightswitch rave at NSA datacenter > Snap-Snap-Snap-Snap um where'd PB go. In a situation like that, his OODA loop is well oriented to continue with a no-PB opener, where someone who did not Form Shift would need more GCDs to achieve GL3.

Would you care to elaborate on this a bit more. o_o
I legit didn't get why someone without FS opener would take more GCDs to achieve GL3.

the rest

I don't engage with ST. But in order to start with PB AND engage with ST, than yes, there would be the small PB animation lock. However it's not stricly necessary to engage with ST either. You can engage all the bosses, at pull, just by walking with the tank. Zero dps loss, and ST can be used fully buffed by potentially 10 damage-up modifiers.

Regarding FS, if you like doing FS pre-pull, sure go ahead. You might not be losing any DPS ("might", since you are adding a unecessary extra Snap Punch and delaying things like ToD and Fracture).
But please, you keep implying that doing it this way is part of "Good DPS Habits" as well as implying that by not using it, one is *not* trying to push dps to its maximum. That is completely false.

If there's no clear evidence that adding an extra Snap Punch at the end increases your DPS, then it's pointless to FS pre-pull. Unless you want a small lag safety-net that, just like human error, happens to all of us and will end up lowering your DPS regardless of what you do. Or maybe, you wanna engage with ST but not have that small PB animation lock. Or out of habit. Pick one, but don't say someone is not trying to push their DPS by not using something that does not contribute to DPS and can very well be even hurting it.

[Claymore022]

My reasoning for wanting to use ST at the start has always been to open with demolish and get the positional for it. You end up delaying your gcd too long if you don't ST and try to hit the positional on the first demo. I've never tried it but i've always assumed the same goes for form shift. If you like to ST at the start then you'll want to FS so you can pop PB while your gcd is ticking instead of delaying it until your second off global (PB) is used.

[Krindor]

ST fully buffed is a little more than that. Between all your buffs, pots, possible raid buffs (trick attack, hyper charge, battle litanny, The Balance), not to mention it's almost a guaranteed crit, using it naked at pull is at most a convenience that most monks still like to have. Nothing wrong with that though, and the dps difference caused by one or the other is barely noticable because of its short CD. But using on battles like a9s and zurvanX at pull is boderline non- sense and unecessar.

You can also jump around spamming emotes during pull macro, theres no reason not to. :P

Average crit rate is accounted into that, balance and HC will be up for the 2nd one, you won't get ST into TA unless you're using a gimped opener, so the only one not accounted for is BL.