Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[RaijinSupreme]

Did I not explain that in the rest of the paragraph that you didn't quote?

Lets see..

The knock on affect of this is the shift in player mentality towards progression and levelling, and I worry that it will have a negative impact on the community

If I'm not mistaken, progression and leveling are two of the most popular things people already do in this game. Progressing through end game content, the journey to max level on multiple jobs, progressing through relic stages, reaching max iLevels on multiple jobs, Feasts ranking progression

Other than progressing and leveling is like Roleplaying, and crafting & gathering, and glamour collecting, which all of them actually have their own progressions systems.

I don't buy things from the cash shop, but its existance still affects me because it has shifted player and dev mentality towards rewards

If I'm not mistaken, rewards is the very thing that drives most of the player base to continue doing content multiple times everyday already. Even without the existence if a cash shop, minions, gear, mounts, and a ton of other things would still be most player's mentality. Just check the PF and see what the most popular things are up there.

So with all that said, no, I still didnt see an actual explanation as to why a jump potion would not work in this game based on the leveling progression that we currently have.

[Lambdafish]

It's not premature, it's preemptive. As more expansions release, ever the wider does the gap grow.

Correct, and expanding upon that SE has created a system where at some point the jump potion will be mandatory through intense (intentional) story gating. (more on this later)

And your irrational speculation of what will happen to the game only serves to lock them out, or push them away, because you THINK something might happen.

You make me sound like a child who is just saying"no, you can't have". That is far from the truth, many many times in this thread alone have I tried to contribute ways in which story can be circumvented if they so choose without the necessity of skipping the entire thing (access to expansions zones through crafting and gathering is one of many). I'm not trying to lock anyone out im trying to find the best solution to this problem that you kindly pointed out, which the jump potion not only doesn't fix, but makes worse.

It is a valid argument because people like that do and will exist. You simply want to ignore that because it so easily destroys any argument against the Pot that you have.

Ignore? Since when did "not necessarily" become "not at all"? Your argument is that all players who use a jump potion want to skip the story, my argument is that players have many different reasons to skip the story (one of which being that they just want to get to current content, scared by the content wall, with no clue about the relevance of the story). In fact, lets just go back to the first quote where I pointed out that at some point jump potion will be almost mandatory. Bad luck if you want to experience the story, you are never seeing endgame if you do because everyone wanted jump potion and the devs never fixed their gating. GG

If I'm not mistaken, progression and leveling are two of the most popular things people already do in this game. Progressing through end game content, the journey to max level on multiple jobs, progressing through relic stages, reaching max iLevels on multiple jobs, Feasts ranking progression

Other than progressing and leveling is like Roleplaying, and crafting & gathering, and glamour collecting, which all of them actually have their own progressions systems.

Ok? What are you trying to say? I know that other elements of the game have their own progression, but I'm not talking about those. My comment about a shift in mentality is that will progression be the most popular thing once jump potion comes out? SE have made them as cash grabby as possible by allowing you to max out all jobs to 60. Now that is fine from a personal perspective, that player will be content in their purchase. But then they queue into their level 61 dungeon and they don't know what their 1-60 skills are, instakick. I'm not saying that jump potion is completely bad, but I am saying that it will divide the community in a horrible way, and it will cause a lot of unplesentness among the community. You can call me melodramatic all you like, but look at this thread, look at all the people saying it will cause bad players, people asking for marks next to jump potion players names so they can kick them, the evidence is there. We should fix the game in a way that promotes the best parts of the game rather than bypasses it entirely.

[Lewtskie]

Correct, and expanding upon that SE has created a system where at some point the jump potion will be mandatory through intense story gating. (more on this later)

People wish to respect the process the writers have chosen for their story progression. Where people find the gating itself a detriment, others like the sense that the world itself advances in such a way. I can respect the method they have chosen.

You make me sound like a child who is just saying"no, you can't have". That is far from the truth, many many times in this thread alone have I tried to contribute ways in which story can be circumvented if they so choose without the necessity of skipping the entire thing (access to expansions zones through crafting and gathering is one of many). I'm not trying to lock anyone out im trying to find the best solution to this problem that you kindly pointed out, which the jump potion not only doesn't fix, but makes worse.

Your "contribution" is near-sighted. Those who have 0 interest in the story still would have to push through it. The Devs would have to circumvent work force to have people clipping and cleaning the quest threads. The only ones who make it out shining are those who want to hold their heads up feeling like they struck some blow against the cash shop. Those who enjoy the story and feel its a slog at least have solice in that they actually enjoy the story. It becomes far more to those who have no interest in it.

If you're not trying to lock anyone out, then perhaps letting people put themselves where they want would be what you want then.

Ignore? Since when did "not necessarily" become "not at all"? Your argument is that all players who use a jump potion want to skip the story, my argument is that players have many different reasons to skip the story (one of which being that they just want to get to current content, scared by the content wall, with no clue about the relevance of the story). In fact, lets just go back to the first quote where I pointed out that at some point jump potion will be almost mandatory. Bad luck if you want to experience the story, you are never seeing endgame if you do because everyone wanted jump potion and the devs never fixed their gating. GG

Experiencing the story is largely a single player instance, with little often going into a dungeon. Dungeons which have kept relevant through roulette and side content providing even end gamers reward. And only then does a dungeon need to be done once. So no, people are just suddenly never going to do low tier content because "lol pots" just as not everyone runs around with a two seater fat moogle or the chinese attire.

And it's obvious you see the gating entirely as a problem. The pot would actually serve to maintain integrity of the choices the devs have made.

Also...

You make me sound like a child... GG

You do it to yourself.

[RaijinSupreme]

Yup and that is precisely why I said it will force players who play normally to rush towards endgame content or just simply quit.

True, some players will rush to endgame content because for those people, its all they care about. If they get to the endgame, and care nothing for it, then that's on them. They aren't going to be "forced" to do it though. Nothing about adding the optional option of skipping old content, and rushing through new content is forced on any player. That is all choice, and I'm always of down for playing having choices, even if its a choice I will never make myself.

It isnt wise to compare free to play MMOs with a subscription based one. And if you're going by a practical business perspective adding something like jump potions is a bad business move. You should keep your players subbed as long as possible not leave within a week once they get bored of playing your latest content.

But this is where the problem lies.

For the rest of this year, even after Stormblood comes out, all promotion and advertisement for this ENTIRE game will be focused on Stormblood, and all the new content it will bring to the game. Old players will get excited to come back, and new players will actually choose to give it a chance, most likely because nothing about the game previously appealed to them. Old players already know what to expect, so I'm not worried about them. New players will buy the game, pop it in, and be utterly surprised when they realize that the expansion that got these players to buy the game wont be accessible to them for a few weeks to a month because they have to play through ALLL the old content first.

Critics will trash this game because of that bait-&-switch, and will heavily compare it to the other MMO's on the market that actually lets any new player experience all the new content that's being advertised to them. This was already a slight issue with Heavensward's release, but it wasn't as bad because it wasn't as much content to get through as it would be to get to Stormblood. 40+ hours for the base game and possibly another 10-20 for the patches, AND another 40+ for HW and another 10-20 for those patches as well? JUST to get to Stormblood? nah.

and while I agree with you that the goal should be to keep players subbed as long as possible, If SE doesn't do anything to actually attract new people to the game, then getting them to stay subbed is already a failed endeavor. [/QUOTE]

[Berethos]

More than half of that patch story was dedicated to a side plot about a spy in the Ul'dah ranks, which is completely irrelevant to the story as a whole.

Except that "side" story serves to create a believable framework within which the WoL works with Ilberd and the Crystal Braves, as well as to explore further the relationship between Rauhban and Ilberd (as well as create reasons for us to trust Ilberd)...both elements important to certain major developments.

It also has not been fully explored and can easily be tied into upcoming content...need I remind you that the seeds for our introduction to the Dragonsong War was around level 35 almost two years prior? They play the long game with story elements.

Hardly "completely irrelevant."

The move to Rising Stones, helping build the adventurer's guild, and checking in on Tataru's adventures are the only parts that aren't directly relevant to four major arcs, and even then getting out of Ul'dah is relevant to the refugee arc (and that's without considering added character development from these parts, which is an important part of any story).

[Jandor]

oh that's very true. But see, I wasn't arguing the fact that the jump potion (at least a new player's first one) should be free or not.

I'm arguing the reasoning for its existence. Regardless if the potion will cost $0, $10, or $100, the fact that it will need to exist for the game to continue to be competitive in a growing market is evident, especially since the game's top competitors all have one.

I know the reason for its existence, I don't like it but it isn't a point I've really pushed except very near the beginning when jump potions were just rumours.

I'm very against the current proposed implementation though, it is probably the single worst way of doing it out of any game I've seen or played. The way SE have expected us to believe that this is the fairest way they can think of is almost laughable.

[Adire]

Only option, no. Objectively best option, yes.

Also, you are aware that SE is a business, right? There's absolutely nothing wrong with them making money at the same time that someone is able to trade money for time.

I've said numerous times that I don't blame SE for wanting to cash in on loose spending habits. I blame players for enabling them to do so. And best option? Doubt it, considering all the non-greedy options they have. But again, players will throw money, so why not catch it.

[Welsper59]

You make me sound like a child who is just saying"no, you can't have". That is far from the truth, many many times in this thread alone have I tried to contribute ways in which story can be circumvented if they so choose without the necessity of skipping the entire thing (access to expansions zones through crafting and gathering is one of many). I'm not trying to lock anyone out im trying to find the best solution to this problem that you kindly pointed out, which the jump potion not only doesn't fix, but makes worse.

I think where part of your problem on the matter lies is that you're not focusing on the core facts here. There are 4 types of players that exist in regards to story with this game. In no order of importance, the first two are those that played through the story but want to level alts and don't want to deal with it, and those that are new but don't give a damn about the story. They are the ones the boost is primarily intended for. Then we have the sort that want to do the story, but can't properly through DF. I'll get into that one shortly. Lastly we have those that want to do the story and can. Those last ones, obviously, are not who the boost is intended for. The matter of leveling is practically interchangeable here.

Regarding those who want to do story, but can't with DF... this is an MMORPG. Make some friends. Get some help to do content that gets you progressing. You may end up having a far greater experience than those before you, since you'll likely not be discouraged from watching all those cutscenes. Old content is old for a (obvious) reason. The majority of players are likely too busy with their own things to want to deal with that again for no good reason. Helping someone that asks for help however, is a totally effective reason with many players.

The potion is not intended to fix anything subjective to the player base. It's there to provide a QoL service for those that want to use it. The "problem" that you describe already exists. In fact, it has always existed since the day that man understood "convenience" and "laziness". Today's market and player mentality just emphasizes that fact.

Ignore? Since when did "not necessarily" become "not at all"?

Ignoring, in this case, likely translates to not properly taking into account a solid point of argument. It is true that every single player that would use it has a total disregard of story. I think that should be a general given that totality does not exist in matters like that. The problem with your argument though, is the lack of self accountability. You're ignoring a solid point to defend your perspective on a matter that either does not exist or does not need to be defended.

If someone buys the story jump potion, do you really believe that person is so stupid that they will not realize that means it'll get them past all the story that they supposedly want? That said person will not realize they'll miss out on story-impacting elements? That's literally arguing someone is fine to think that they want to experience the story, but want to also skip it, so they'll pay a lot of money for an optional service to do it, only to feel like they were cheated or left out of the experience. Why protect those that are THAT stupid? You're arguing for people to not learn from their mistakes. Keep in mind, that they can still access those story segments (they just won't get it in the fullest extent). Your stance on the argument seems to be from the regret that they don't get that full experience for buying something they intentionally wanted, which is not a good one from any logical/sensible perspective.

I've said numerous times that I don't blame SE for wanting to cash in on loose spending habits. I blame players for enabling them to do so. And best option? Doubt it, considering all the non-greedy options they have. But again, players will throw money, so why not catch it.

You call it "greedy", whereas any person or company that caters to market demand for profit calls it "business." I'd argue the latter is the one that is in the perceptional right here. There is no immoral game at play to label a level or story boost as "greedy".

[Adire]

You call it "greedy", whereas any person or company that caters to market demand for profit calls it "business." I'd argue the latter is the one that is in the perceptional right here. There is no immoral game at play to label a level or story boost as "greedy".

Wrong. It is greedy to milk any kind of money you can milk regardless of whether it's right, wrong, or healthy for the game to do so.

But for the millionth time, I don't blame SE. From a business perspective it's a genius move. I blame the people who enable it.

[Welsper59]

Wrong. It is greedy to milk any kind of money you can milk regardless of whether it's right, wrong, or healthy for the game to do so.

But for the millionth time, I don't blame SE. From a business perspective it's a genius move. I blame the people who enable it.

I'm arguing semantics here. "Greed" is a morality based term/accusation that is subjective to the individual. If you think profiting on market demands is a "greedy" move, then you (logically) have to consider all forms of profits through demand as "greedy". Would I be right? If I'm not, then your use of accusing them of being "greedy" is invalid. You're choosing that word, which obviously has negative implications, to make yourself look passive aggressive on the matter.

Not arguing your end point about it being a smart move of theirs, nor the part about it being the players who brought this subject to fruition. I agree with you on that. You are also literally right about your "greedy" statement, but only at a very very literal level (i.e. impractical level). As in, being on-par with me accusing everyone (including you) of being greedy for wanting disposable income for yourself, instead of donating it to charities. I'm just pointing out that you need to choose your words better. Accusing them as being greedy for this is just an incorrect statement, on a practical level.