Results 1 to 10 of 72

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Its always add end-game content, never what you want to see for end game content. Every time SE has tried adding something new, everyone complains its not what they wanted. We want to grind for gear with a low drop rate that gives us horizontal progression - diadem. thats not what we wanted, its too grindy and the gear is too good pr too bad.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player Vhailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    761
    Character
    Deionarra Eidolon
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    Its always add end-game content, never what you want to see for end game content. Every time SE has tried adding something new, everyone complains its not what they wanted. We want to grind for gear with a low drop rate that gives us horizontal progression - diadem. thats not what we wanted, its too grindy and the gear is too good pr too bad.
    I want to see FFXI-style content. I want gear that doesn't fit into the shallow iLevel meta, with skill enhancements, trade-offs, situational usefulness. I want to see a patch cycle that, if it's going to render gear obsolete, does so over long periods of time than a few months (say, once every year or so have a boost in item power; maybe tie it to expansion releases since the level cap increases anyway). I want to see content that's got a well-paced grind with variety and solid rewards (think Abyssea for FFXI, with minor tweaks to Empyrean weapons).

    SE already put the formula in place in FFXIV's predecessor. Then they went and ignored it in a misguided effort to cater to more casual gamers. Well guess what? I am a casual gamer. That doesn't mean I want brainless content for 90% of the game, or a gear system that allows me to effortlessly catch up if I take a six-month break.

    TL; DR - You can't defend SE's content decisions when they nailed the formula many people are asking for in their previous MMO. They know exactly how to design proper grinds - they just don't want to, and there's a substantial percentage of their player base who isn't happy with their decision.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhailor View Post
    I want to see FFXI-style content. .
    I'd love to see a lot of XI styled content in XIV. Einherjar limbus znm salvage assault Nyzul Isle, sky sea, even dynamis (maybe not the 4 hour long zones)

    The problem really is that most of FFXI's endgame content was structured and built around fixed groups of players. fixed groups clearing wings of einherjar for example to get a set of "keys" in order to battle odin. or fixed groups working through appollyon zones building up a set of "keys" to fight omega. stuff like that wouldn't work in duty finder.

    Virtually all of XIVs content is built around the duty/raid finder in an ultra accessible just queue it and go fashion. because of this. none of the content in XIV is structured in anyway. and if it was players would kick off big time. because hell even finding a group of 4 people to do palacae of the dead 101-200 is too much hard work. and theres posts asking for it to be duty finderable. (ok riad finder seems to be quite bad on the na side but that's because the player base doesn't touch it. seems a lot more successful on the jp side from what I've read)

    it's a shame really because people have also been asking for structured content designed for fcs and stuff for the longest time hell even since 1.0. and in that regard many of ffxi's endgame systems could work incredibly well and be epic fun in xiv. but again the duty finder means it'll probably never happen.

    I personally would love to see something like limbus in XIV. one of the best things about that and a lot of xis endgame was it didn't matter how many people you took. you could still make progress. in xiv all to often do you find yourself with 5 people wanting to do something and 1 is left out or 7 people wanting to do something but can't get an 8th..

    was never a problem in xi if one of your guys didn't turn up for a run you just went without them. xiv one of your guys doesn't show up and the group falls apart..
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Underdog2204's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    420
    Character
    Dacien Valtin
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzian View Post
    Snip
    Not good enough coz it involves fighting and killing a boss... *shrug*
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Vhailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    761
    Character
    Deionarra Eidolon
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    I dunno if i'd say they nailed it. Their game design prevented me from even getting to end game :P In fact, the game design of XI prevented me from even unlocking subjobs or advanced jobs at all.

    And the OP has 9 likes, I'd say that's not a substantial amount of players.

    6 months is a pretty long time for something to be relevant, considering most people finish games withing weeks. I'm all for more ways of getting gear, but asking for it to last super long just makes new content useless, IMO, when you can already have gear thats just as good from months ago.
    Going off the number of likes on a forum that has heard this same conversation ad nauseum does not a good metric make. Similar types of threads to this have been coming up ever since XIV: ARR released, and they've generated (cumulatively) thousands of pages of discussions. It's clear there's interest.

    I agree that the barrier to entry for XI end-game was high. I wasn't intending that to be kept. All that said, at the end of the day, MMOs should never shy away from content that requires tens of hours of investment. By all means, keep creating more casual content that people with less time can enjoy, but there needs to be some content with meat on its bones, too.

    Finally, as to your comment about length of gear relevance, SE should again follow the model they already laid down with FFXI: introduce new gear that offers improvements while not rendering old gear irrelevant. They're fully capable of it, so why not design it? It successfully drove FFXI's end-game for years; was it really necessary to scrap it in favour of an idiot-proof iLevel system requiring no thought whatsoever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    Neither does a game that relies on 1-5% drop rates for gear. That gets old pretty quick as well. People already hate that they have to run stuff multiple times to get drops if they roll low or it doesn't show up in a particular run.
    This is a very tired argument. There are plenty of examples in FFXI (or other MMOs) that managed to create deep and time-consuming content without resorting to 1-5% drop rates. I agree that, if forced to choose between playing the RNG for a year and the current system, I'd pick the current system; thankfully, those aren't our only options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog2204 View Post
    Ohh one type of content sure if you disregard the most defining factor between them... Their difficulty and rewards.

    So what kind of endgame would you like then? You can't cop out and say you don't have to specify what you want because yes you do, nothing seems to please. If you want a city building simulator you actually do need to play a different game... You are in the totally wrong genre.
    Hijacking slightly, but I'd like content that honestly feels different. Like FFXI had.

    I want options like Sky or Sea, where I can work my way up through tiers of NMs to spawn and beat a wide variety of bosses (note that the content contained in these two sets of events is more than XIV: ARR has featured over more or less its entire lifespan, raid-wise). I want options like BCNMs and KSNMs, which provide both a chance at decent rewards AND an extra reward for killing monsters out and about in the world. I want large-scale group options like Dynamis and Einherjar for Free Companies, mid-size options like Salvage for Duty Finder, and small-size options like Assault for entertaining myself with friends.

    FFXIV is lacking this variety and depth. None of the Raids launched thus far have featured the amount of content of any one of these items, and they're rendered irrelevant within six months to boot (let alone the other end-game options FFXI had).

    And people like you, who are trying to defend the amazingly shallow experience that FFXIV's combat-focused end-game provides, really do a disservice to everyone. The most anyone can honestly say about XIV's end-game is that it works for their needs. If that's your position, just state it and move on (or don't).

    Trying to argue that it's got plenty to do is absurd, because CLEARLY there is a number of players for whom the content isn't enough. SE shouldn't just ignore them.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhailor View Post
    I want to see FFXI-style content. I want gear that doesn't fit into the shallow iLevel meta, with skill enhancements, trade-offs, situational usefulness. I want to see a patch cycle that, if it's going to render gear obsolete, does so over long periods of time than a few months (say, once every year or so have a boost in item power; maybe tie it to expansion releases since the level cap increases anyway). I want to see content that's got a well-paced grind with variety and solid rewards (think Abyssea for FFXI, with minor tweaks to Empyrean weapons).

    SE already put the formula in place in FFXIV's predecessor. Then they went and ignored it in a misguided effort to cater to more casual gamers. Well guess what? I am a casual gamer. That doesn't mean I want brainless content for 90% of the game, or a gear system that allows me to effortlessly catch up if I take a six-month break.

    TL; DR - You can't defend SE's content decisions when they nailed the formula many people are asking for in their previous MMO. They know exactly how to design proper grinds - they just don't want to, and there's a substantial percentage of their player base who isn't happy with their decision.
    See, I find your proposal boring. I have only a few bits of gear to farm and than no direct improvements for a year? Situational gear is needlessly cumbersome and only serves to clog up inventory space. I do not derive any enjoyment being forced to keep certain equipment in my inventory for one specific encounter and nothing else. I prefer the efficiency which comes with equipping direct upgrades and ignoring them until new patch installments come. Among the primary reasons I never got into FFXI is the agonizingly slow progression. Why does it matter if someone can catch up quickly? I'll never understand this obsession some people have with needing to feel superior long term. Having completed Savage, I couldn't give an ounce of a damn if someone resubs tomorrow for 3.5 and reaches my ilvl within three weeks. It doesn't magically absolve my accomplishments or my own goals of getting better each week. On the other hand, forcing people who haven't played for months or are entirely new to wait months because "it's not fair if they catch up fast" is a primary reason very few Korean MMOs survive more than a couple years. If I were to hop into Black Desert or Blade & Soul now with the intent to be competitive, it'll take several months of virtually non-stop play to have any chance. Most people won't bother, thus the games inevitably die off.

    That all being said, I do agree XIV caters far too greatly to lowest common denominator. Too much content requires little more than pressing 1-2-3. But to advocate XIV needs to become XI-2 is equally shortsighted. XI worked off a fifteen year old model that simply wouldn't appeal to gamers of this generation. Either accept that and move on or go play FFXI because FFXIV will never become it.
    (1)