Stupid reason to report someone

[Greedalox]

::sweet smile::

Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you? DPS if people don't need healing... don't know where you're getting the idea that you're expected to put out more damage than a DPS with holy spam if they're standing in everything. Nobody is saying anything like that at all >.>

[Kosmos992k]

Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you? DPS if people don't need healing... don't know where you're getting the idea that you're expected to put out more damage than a DPS with holy spam if they're standing in everything. Nobody is saying anything like that at all >.>

Hmmm... Did I mention holy spam? No, I talked about DDs not standing in stupid since a lot of healer time can be consumed by healing avoidable damage. If players would actually avoid such damage, healers would have more time to use their attacks. I'm not sure why you ask "Every DPS healer thread ever agrees with you?", nor why you think I said that healers should out DPS damage dealers. I made no statement about either of those things at all. I think maybe you're trying to argue with me about something someone else said.

No where have I said that healers should not try to dps if they can, which is exactly the message of the Hall of Novices, it re-emphasizes again and again that the healer's 1st responsibility is healing and they can take the opportunity to do some damage - IF - circumstances allow. But the only reason this discussion persists is because of numerous people whining that such and such a healer was lazy because they did not DPS. Stop insulting other players and demanding that they play your way. Sure most decent healers will try to find some time to help kill things, but it's not mandatory and people should stop acting like it is.

I think my first post in this stupidity stated that the healer's role is to heal, and that any DPS they can contribute is a bonus, but it's not mandatory and people should stop making that demand of healers. What is there in that statement to argue with?

[Greedalox]

Zoop

I used Holy Spam as an example of healer dps because you said you play White Mage. Healer DPS is the whole idea behind the thread so I don't know why you're making it sound so abstract that I mentioned it.

The post I also quoted with the -Sweet Smile- you mentioned that maybe healers could DPS more if DPS stopped taking unnecessary damage (Which you just reaffirmed in the post above), but my entire reply was dedicated to telling you that you're barking up the wrong tree because nobody I've read yet in the 80+ pages of Healer DPS threads has remotely stated that there's expectations for you to maintain Holy Spam (Read as Healer DPS) if your team is unable to avoid unnecessary damage.

Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

[Kosmos992k]

I used Holy Spam as an example of healer dps because you said you play White Mage. Healer DPS is the whole idea behind the thread so I don't know why you're making it sound so abstract that I mentioned it.

The post I also quoted with the -Sweet Smile- you mentioned that maybe healers could DPS more if DPS stopped taking unnecessary damage (Which you just reaffirmed in the post above), but my entire reply was dedicated to telling you that you're barking up the wrong tree because nobody I've read yet in the 80+ pages of Healer DPS threads has remotely stated that there's expectations for you to maintain Holy Spam (Read as Healer DPS) if your team is unable to avoid unnecessary damage.

Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

Again, I didn't talk at all about Holy Spam. Stone 3 is quite nice for doing some decent damage, Holy Spam is nice in an AoE situation, but hardly the primary DPS tool for a WHM. You're completely re framing the discussion in order to try to invalidate what has been said. If anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it would be you my friend. Your final statement again stresses Holy Spam, which I haven't talked about, you may see that as the only thing a WHM can do beyond healing, but fortunately most WHM do not.

And again I will say it;

I talked about DDs not standing in stupid since a lot of healer time can be consumed by healing avoidable damage. If players would actually avoid such damage, healers would have more time to use their attacks.

The healer's role is to heal, and that any DPS they can contribute is a bonus, but it's not mandatory and people should stop making that demand of healers. What is there in that statement to argue with?

[Greedalox]

Again, I didn't talk at all about Holy Spam. Stone 3 is quite nice for doing some decent damage, Holy Spam is nice in an AoE situation, but hardly the primary DPS tool for a WHM. You're completely re framing the discussion in order to try to invalidate what has been said. If anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it would be you my friend. Your final statement again stresses Holy Spam, which I haven't talked about, you may see that as the only thing a WHM can do beyond healing, but fortunately most WHM do not.

And again I will say it;

You're really difficult to argue with because you're avoiding the entire point. I said Holy Spam simply as reference to you saying you played WHM. It's not like I'm pretending Stone 3, SCH or AST don't exist. It was just an example (Plus Holy can easily be most of a Healers DPS in a dungeon so saying it isn't primary is kinda silly). As for your reframing comment, let me put it into perspective before you say "I didn't say nothin' about holy spam". I'm saying ALL healers have the tools to DPS and Heal in dungeons, but Nobody expects a healer to DPS if healing needs to be done.

I was replying to a singular post of yours in the first place and my issue with THAT post in which you spoke about Healers maybe actually having a chance to DPS if DPS didn't take damage. That's my issue, not your other posts your acting like I have issue with.

[Niwashi]

doing 1k dmg while others are doing 2k+ is a carry as the 1ker obviously isn't pulling their weight

In some cases that would be true. In other cases it's not. It depends on the duty.

If the duty requires that a pair of damage dealers collectively contribute 3K dmg in order to clear a DPS check, and one of them is doing 1K while another does 2K, then yes, that is a carry.

On the other hand, if a duty requires 2K total between both of them, and one is doing 1K while another does 2K, that's not a carry. The 1K damage dealer is providing their full share of the DPS that's needed for that run. That fact doesn't change just because the other is doing more than is needed.

The determining factor in whether you're pulling your weight or not is: if everybody were doing equally well / equally poorly to what you're doing, would that result in a clear or a wipe? If it would result in a clear (even a slow clear) then you're doing your fair share of clearing that run.


Note: That does not answer whether or not you're doing your job well. Many duties are easy enough they don't really require anybody to be doing well, especially if they're over-geared. But that's a separate question from whether you're doing your fair share or being carried. Being adequate and being good aren't always the same thing.

[Miste]

Honestly being main healer since 1.0 and kept with it when the game changed to 2.0 onward I feel healer DPS is awesome.

For me it isn't about running the content as fast as possible it is just...I want to do everything I can to help and support the team I get when I do content.

I have the power to heal and I have the power to DPS and I feel if I have the skill to do it then using both is how I best contribute. I have the mindset where if I can do something better I will always do it because why wouldn't I want to do everything I am able to do to help. (as long as it is feasible; understandably you get bad setups sometimes where you can't dps as much or at all due to the tank not using cooldowns/undergeared, not keeping hate, or people getting hit by unnecessary damage)

Mobs die faster so less stress on the tank and they won't have to worry about running out of cooldowns, the DPS don't have to mash as much buttons with me helping, the run goes faster and smoother. I mean it is like win-win for everyone in the group.

I understand some healers lack the skill/confidence and that is fine, but I do encourage all healers to try it out and try to learn it because seriously it can be really fun. You never know if you might have fun with something till you try it. Of course always focus keeping the team alive first though and practice makes perfect.

[Rennies]

As a Healer main, I can say with 100% certainty that anyone who only helps the party 20% of the time is not worthy of the rewards from completing a dungeon. It's pathetically easy to stance dance- you literally only need 2 buttons, minimum- Cleric Stance and your spam damage spell. If you can't even do that during downtime, you are worthless.

Also, you got reported for verbal abuse, not for your garbage playstyle.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

As a Healer main, I can say with 100% certainty that anyone who only helps the party 20% of the time is not worthy of the rewards from completing a dungeon. It's pathetically easy to stance dance- you literally only need 2 buttons, minimum- Cleric Stance and your spam damage spell. If you can't even do that during downtime, you are worthless.

Also, you got reported for verbal abuse, not for your garbage playstyle.

And you people wonder why you get so much backlash from the "Healer DPS is not mandatory" crowd. Preach what you know I guess...

[Rennies]

And you people wonder why you get so much backlash from the "Healer DPS is not mandatory" crowd. Preach what you know I guess...

Name's highly familiar. May or may not be someone I've played with at some point.

And calling a player "worthless" when they contribute nothing to a run is not verbal abuse, it's stating a fact. You can be worth something when you make use of your party slot.