Stupid reason to report someone

[Erik501]

snip"

No, you can't easily switch the 'party finder' argument around. What is easy however is to understand the reason why you can't: the requirements to queue in duty finder are just level and/or item level, whereas the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be, from learning/practice to all the way up to perfect skill or even parsing competition. So if you only expect level-ilevel then duty finder is the tool. If you expect anything else then party finder is the tool: make sure you explain your requirements properly.

[Dsync]

No, you can't easily switch the 'party finder' argument around. What is easy however is to understand the reason why you can't: the requirements to queue in duty finder are just level and/or item level, whereas the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be, from learning/practice to all the way up to perfect skill or even parsing competition. So if you only expect level-ilevel then duty finder is the tool. If you expect anything else then party finder is the tool: make sure you explain your requirements properly.

Yes you can and I just did. If you want to be lazy, use the Party Finder.

"looking for people who don't care about how well each other perform. Healer who won't DPS welcome"

From your own post, you're saying that people who try are expected to put up with those who don't. No. Don't expect anyone to put up with that. You're expecting people to put up with a lazy attitude.

[Erik501]

snip

Since I just said literally that "the requirements to join a party finder group can be whatever you want them to be", your example fits perfectly within my definition because you would be asking for something especific which is not merely defined by level-ilevel, so the fact remains the same: the only requirement to queue in duty finder is level-ilevel. So, thanks for proving me right.

However it would be fine if you just tried to answer to what I am actually saying if you think you have a valid point rather than trying to play the straw-man tactic. I play for fun, and I find it fun to push myself to play to the best of my abilities. What I don't find fun, however, is having someone in the party whining and moaning because the healer is only healing and not doing DPS, the mage is an ice mage, the bard is not singing the most optimal song or whatever you want to whine and moan about. As I said before, offering advise is perfectly fine, I welcome it when it comes and try to learn form it. Whining and moaning about the performance of the others, however, is not fun, at least for me, so if that's what you like to do, fine, use the party finder and have a good time.

[Watachy]

Yeah i will just tag in PF to wait way more time than i could possibly wait in DF.
And doing a PF don't proves you're gonna play we decent players as well.

Im not enjoying playing in DF because most of people just want a carry and that's a pain. But i have to do those daily DF things because SE don't think about another way to get your weekly tomes.
Those thing will never change (weekly cap in a single way and Healers that have to DPS).

Im enjoying the game and that's why im still playing it. But im sick to run the two exact same dungeons during months and face lazy people that wants a carry.
I will never understand people going into DF just to chill and enjoy the run, wanna enjoy the run ? Tag with friends and enjoy yourself.

Most DF users wants fast clears to do something else after that.

A 30/40min run is a pain if there is no newcomer into this dungeon. Why would you ever take 30 min per day to do something over and over again you can do it in 10min ?

Just glad to see that SE mentionned the fact i can kick a player from my party if his playstyle bothers me.

[Dsync]

snap

And then you have a choice. Do you stick with the healer, or the other person complaining. A vote kick can be initiated by either party. It then becomes the collective choice on what happens. If you are vote-kicked for being lazy then that is the choice the group made. If you are vote kicked for causing drama, then that, once again, is the choice the group made. You do not have 100% right to a group's time if they don't want you.

The OP makes an active choice to not damage. They expect others to put up with that. You play for fun, like others do. If your idea of fun conflicts with the overriding feeling of what "fun" is to the majority of your current group, then they have the right to remove you. Personally, I just eat the 30 minutes rather than cause drama in a group. Taking the active choice that I'm not willing to carry people who can't be bothered. Though people who come complaining that they were kicked because people didn't want them (though this thread was more about OP getting reported for 'allegedly' doing no damage, though attaching that they "told off" the other player as an afterthought, like that couldn't have had anything to do with it ) might want to self-reflect on why they were kicked.

Your idea of fun is less important than the group choice. If it doesn't match then being kicked is a possibility, and 'play style' has been shown to be an acceptable reason to remove someone, even in DF where we have people claiming that you can play however badly you like.

If you cause drama in DF, expect a kick (or people to leave)
If you play lazily, expect a kick (or people to leave)

There are people who are uncomfortable doing damage, and most can appreciate that. However, making it an active choice to do less than others, then complaining because people will not put up with it, even in DF, is spoilt. Expecting one group of players to use PF because they're unhappy with lazy players, but not the other group who are being lazy, is silly.

[Watachy]

There are people who are uncomfortable doing damage, and most can appreciate that. However, making it an active choice to do less than others, then complaining because people will not put up with it, even in DF, is spoilt. Expecting one group of players to use PF because they're unhappy with lazy players, but not the other group who is being lazy, is silly.

You're my hero.

[Erik501]

snip

Thank you, those are some very valid points and we finally agree on something. As I said, I play for fun, and if a run in duty finder stops being fun for whatever reason I just leave. I don't even bother starting a vote-kick, because you are absolutely right: I don't have 100% right to a groups time, nobody does, and the fact that I am not having fun at any given point does not mean that the other people are not having fun either. They might be in fact. So I leave, do something else during 30 minutes and then queue again. No drama at all.

I have stepped in to make you realize what duty finder is and what you can expect from it. That does not mean that I support the OP in any way, shape or form. He probably was reported for being agressive in his answer, and if that was the case then he deserved it. Had I been the tank in his party, however, we would have ended the guildhest no problem, no complaints from anyone and no drama whatsoever. That is the point. Most of the time when a run in duty finder ends in a failure or with someone leaving or vote-kicked it is not because someone is performing poorly, but because someone else is being a dick about that performance.

[Paladinleeds]

While I am definitely chill about it and aren't going to kick up a fuss, I know there's a portion of players that if you do even 1 DPS less than what your job can output in front of them, you will be named, shamed, and ridiculed, until you feel you have to quit the game. There are players at both ends of the spectrum, and everywhere in between, and you have to decide as a group what's best. In 4 man duties, if that means one other person agrees with you, the person you want kicked is out. That's fine, it's numbers. But I do think some players need to be more lenient to those who are struggling. For those who just want a carry, while I'm too pacifist to kick up a stink about it (despite my other posts on this forum suggesting otherwise), I do agree that something should be done about them. But how can you tell the difference between someone who is struggling to the max (say for example they're struggling to the point they don't know what Cleric Stance is, and levelled AST as their only healer and therefore don't have it) vs someone who is just after a carry, without talking to them first?

[Dreggit]

I think everyone forget the main reason healer have damage abilities, that is to do the MSQ and quest in general.

Having played WHM for awhile now. (L59 and still have no left Ish gard yet) I'm getting bored of the lack of dps options. I'd like something more than just stone and aero :U (if there's more in 50+job quests I've not gotten to them yet. Want to complete all the Ex Primals synched)

Don't get me wrong. I love the support role of healing but at times I feel it's kind of middle of the road with healing and dps. Although stance swapping is a lot of fun

[Artemiz]

I got reported because I didn't do damage, as a healer.

I do not dps as a healer. It is a choice I make.

Anyone claiming healers shouldn't DPS has obviously never seen a good healer dish out the pain. If I'm running an ex roulette on my BLM the one job that routinely makes me feel impotent on large pulls is a better geared WHM, Holy is OP as hell. If I'm tanking then nothing makes me grin wider then, you guessed it, a WHM who lets rip with Holy right off the bat. Not only that but from what I can tell WHM isn't even the hardest hitting healer, that honour goes to SCH but as the damage is more subtle it's less noticable. Healer damage is huge, not quite up to par with a good DPS class but not that far off and having a good healer is like having an extra DPS so just standing around with your thumb up your ass isn't really pulling your weight. Just look at the potencies if you're still in doubt

Fire II potency is 100
Flare potency is 260 but it uses all MP so can't be spammed.
Holy potency is 200, it also stuns all the mobs and can be spammed.

I know that's not taking into account astral fire buff but c'mon, how can anybody justify doing nothing when they can easily contribute so much?