What is with this game and half-naked women as bosses?

[RyuSaarva]

Bosses with big boobs and/or little clothes:
-Sophia
-Garuda(because the Ixal like their women with boobs)
-Cloud Of Darkness
-Calistoferi
-Echidna(a monster but still naked!)
-Shiva
-Dun Scaith Boss
-Siren
-Halicarnassus
-Lady Adamantine
-Scylla(Do they have to be there?)

Bosses with boobs for some reason:
-Arachne Eve
-Belladonna
-Twintania
^ jk..

all these famous demons like siren, scylla and succubus should have been in fact naked so be happy that square censored them for you.

[sarehptar]

all these famous demons like siren, scylla and succubus should have been in fact naked so be happy that square censored them for you.

Welp, time to go home folks! Square put scraps of clothing on the female demons in their T rated game so they could get it published. I feel so blessed by this generosity. So moved! Now we really know they care about depicting female villains in unique and diverse ways!

:P

[Underdog2204]

Welp, time to go home folks! Square put scraps of clothing on the female demons in their T rated game so they could get it published. I feel so blessed by this generosity. So moved! Now we really know they care about depicting female villains in unique and diverse ways!

:P

Yeah coz the only thing that doesn't matter here is the personality of said villains... It' all about dat booty... Coz we know that's the only interesting character trait that a female could have is how she looks and how much cleavage she has.

And beautiful women have no other qualities to them other than being beautiful. Shiva (an example like to be used here) has zero interesting backstory and may aswell be a one dimensional carboard cut-out coz she has the boobs. /sarcasm

[sarehptar]

Yeah coz the only thing that doesn't matter here is the personality of said villains... It' all about dat booty... Coz we know that's the only interesting character trait that a female could have is how she looks and how much cleavage she has.

And beautiful women have no other qualities to them other than being beautiful. Shiva (an example like to be used here) has zero interesting backstory and may aswell be a one dimensional carboard cut-out coz she has the boobs. /sarcasm

Or... you could not take a single blatantly sarcastic comment out of context and pretend that it's an accurate summary of the opinions I've stated across this thread. That'd be cool.

But hey, I'm bored as hell at work so I'll play this game too. Let's actually take a look at Shiva, because you're right. Even if we completely ignore Ysayle herself, Shiva was a (at least more so than many) compelling character whose story was well-developed, well-integrated into the plot, and well-written. Her actions profoundly affect the course of the story and the player is led to sympathize with her in a meaningful way.

But a compelling story is not a trade-off for stereotypical design. I mean, you're literally saying "Well they gave her an interesting back story, so it's fine that her design is fan service." Which, hey, if that's your opinion, own it. I personally think that paying consumers are entitled to their fan service from time to time! But don't try to imply other people are reducing female characters to one-dimensional cardboard cut-outs because we're noting a discrepancy between the purposeful role a character plays narratively and the role they are made to play visually.

So, Shiva. Here's a picture of Shiva from the "interesting back story."

This is an ancient depiction of Shiva.

We know for a fact that with the echo, Ysayle actually saw what the original Shiva looked like. Her band of heretics worship at statues that look like this, I believe also implied to depict Shiva. We know that primals look like what their worshippers expect them to look like.

...This is the primal Shiva:


Now, who expected Shiva to look like that? Ysayle and her heretics... or the game's real-life audience? Leaving aside the whole issue of keeping the FF legacy alive by using designs that harken back to earlier games (because yes, we've acknowledged that point already and yes we know they wanted Shiva to look like every other FF Shiva out there but that doesn't mean the first Shiva didn't have kind of a stereotypical design too), there's no narrative reason for Shiva's depiction to have so drastically changed. (You could make up some convoluted excuse about the poor heretics of Ishgard lacking any titillating material and having to imagine their own, I guess, but I hope you'd at least be cognizant enough to admit the stretch.) Whether Shiva wears some clothes or wears no clothes has zero impact on the events of the plot--the only impact it has is on the enjoyment of viewers who are attracted to that kind of design. Her design is meant to be fan service--both in the sexual appeal and in the long-time FF fan way.

Having a great back story doesn't make a design any less fan service-y. In fact, it just makes blatant fan service even more blatant.

Now whether or not the fan service is a bad thing is an entirely different issue. Like I said earlier, I think some liberally applied fan service helps drive sales and subs and all that nonsense and is therefore well worth it. But when it becomes a trend for developers to pigeonhole characters into certain types of designs based on gender, then it becomes boring and gross. I don't want all our male bosses to look like Sephirot, Titan, and Xande either! That's equally boring and equally illogical.

Asking for more diversity in design doesn't hurt anyone but the people who don't want more diversity...

[Underdog2204]

Or... you could not take a single blatantly sarcastic comment out of context and pretend that it's an accurate summary of the opinions I've stated across this thread. That'd be cool.

Or you could actually understand what sarcasm is - Sarcasm: the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say.

"I feel so blessed by this generosity. So moved! Now we really know they care about depicting female villains in unique and diverse ways!", implies there are no unique female characters (specifically villains) in the game which is an out and out lie.

You are right fanservice is not a bad thing but you are no authority on what is too much or too little if the consumer wants it. No-one is pigeonholeing these characters other than people like you who ironically say they do not want them to be pigeonholed.... The mental gymnastics astounds me...

[sarehptar]

Or you could actually understand what sarcasm is - Sarcasm: the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say.

"I feel so blessed by this generosity. So moved! Now we really know they care about depicting female villains in unique and diverse ways!", implies there are no unique female characters (specifically villains) in the game which is an out and out lie.

You are right fanservice is not a bad thing but you are no authority on what is too much or too little if the consumer wants it. No-one is pigeonholeing these characters other than people like you who ironically say they do not want them to be pigeonholed.... The mental gymnastics astounds me... How things look are not their definining traits.

Bro, I can't even.

1) That's irony you're thinking of. Sarcasm can be but is not exclusively limited to the use of irony. We have different words for different reasons! #Diversity

2) By that logic, who invested you with the authority to decide who is and isn't pigeonholing here? :T These mental gymnastics, man!

And edit because lord, your post made me lol so hard I actually missed the most lulzy part of it: "you are no authority on what is too much or too little if the consumer wants it." Sorry, wasn't aware that "the consumer" was a mystical title that people like me--good hard-working subscription-paying customers--aren't entitled to.

[Underdog2204]

Bro, I can't even.

1) That's irony you're thinking of. Sarcasm can be but is not exclusively limited to the use of irony. We have different words for different reasons! #Diversity

2) By that logic, who invested you with the authority to decide who is and isn't pigeonholing here? :T These mental gymnastics, man!

I just stated the Webster dictionary definition of sarcasm... There was nothing ironic in what you stated there was zero contradicting meanings towards your stance on this subject and what you said in that statement. Please point out the "irony" in what you said... If it's there it should be easily done. It would've been ironic if your stance was the opposite of what it is, but it's not.

2) You are pigeonholing you said so yourself - "But when it becomes a trend for developers to pigeonhole characters into certain types of designs based on gender, then it becomes boring and gross." I don't class Sophia and Shiva in the same catagory based soley on how they appear (basically that look like beautiful women). I think they both have unique design concepts... Sophia has a huge discombobulated head for christ sake...

So the irony is that you actually assume the devs are pigeonholing because that's what you think... Yet you just called me out for assuming you pigeonhole them (based off what you have said)? Tell me who is being the arbiter of who piegonholes what here? Yeah for sure those gymnastics....

Yes you are right, but you are a minority of the playerbase... As I keep saying and will repeat over and over again the majority of people just do not care. So you do not get to dictacte how the game goes or what the dev's should include, neither does the majority. They do their thing and you either like it or leave it, it seems like what they are doing is doing them good, soooo why does this need changing again? Oh that's right coz you want it