As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[xJimmehx]

Honestly by Feyona Logic. I could just pull mobs as a DPS, have the healer deal with the nonsense while the PLD spams clemency on the healer because its fun.

It's not worth debating this anymore. The thread reeks of socialism.

If everyone is having fun and they get their completion why should you care? Ive done naked trial runs just for kicks and giggles myself(with premade of course). Now your just being plain silly.
Edit: Ah, i notice you said "I could pull" If you're involved i could see why youd care. If your having fun, you're darn right I would give you the ok. Id be happy for you. As long as you dont fail your group, knock your self out. God knows this game could use some fun. Life is too short to turn a game into something stressful and constantly complain that others playing are different and dont care to maximize their potential and would rather have fun. (fun, in a game, i know. Crazy, right?) Really guys..

[CookieMonsta]

Well you can just have fun in your way playing with people who live up to your standard. And let me have fun my way, which has more emphasis on enjoyment of the game with people who feel the same way. We still clear the content, but no one feels the necessity to micro manage anyone else's playstyle

Notice the word attempt lol, I have no beef with people who are bad but are open minded, they will naturally improve with experience. My beef is with those that don't try and then justify it. And no unfortunately not all content can be done with good people. The entire game is rigged to force better players to carry weaker ones. The gearing curve is literally built around DF (except maybe Savage), you have no choice. Why else would stuff like Wonderous Tails exist?

[Cleftobismal]

God knows this game could use some fun.

You don't find this game fun anymore? Shocker.

My beef is with those that don't try and then justify it. The entire game is rigged to force better players to carry weaker ones.

So much truth in this ^. These certain players in this thread just don't get it that of course I will be (and have the right to) be offended when I see a healer just sitting there not earning his keep in the party. In essence when you que in the duty finder, you're there to work****** with the party.

Work.



>>>>>Work<<<<<





I see nothing but the truth that supports my point.

You can't get the job done efficiently if you just horse around and do nothing but the bare minimum.


Time is money. And I really sincerely do not want you in my party, if you're the reason why a 25 minute duty is taking 40mins.

I'm not sorry.

[xJimmehx]

You don't find this game fun anymore? Shocker.

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you keep acting like that? Maybe i should have worded it differently. I have plenty fun. Im referring to the stiffs that cant find anything other to do with their time than complain about how others play or pass out insults on the forums.. Do you know how many people call this community bad or toxic? What about Elitists and trolls? It is joked at as being the new home of "wowfags" and the like. (not my words, but a quote. I have no intention to offend anyone..I dont know much about WoW) If people were busy having more fun and speding less time worrying about others I think it would lessen this sort of behavior. That is what i ment.

[xJimmehx]

You can't get the job done efficiently if you just horse around and do nothing but the bare minimum.
Time is money. And I really sincerely do not want you in my party, if you're the reason why a 25 minute duty is taking 40mins.

Who cares if its efficient? You? So i should care what you think? You. The guy who doesnt care what anyone else thinks and "isnt sorry" PPPPffftt. Get over yourself.

Time is money. Right. And i paid my sub to play. Not you. If time is money ill play how you want all day but you better start coughing up the cash or gtfo because my time is worth just as much as anyone elses. I wouldnt want you in my party either. Im glad you agree on that at least.

Edit: I love how you compared a game to work by the way. Because thats what normal people want. To log in to a "game" to work and pay to be allowed to work without getting a paycheck.

Edit: Ive reached my daily limit on posting. This is my last reply most likely:
lol work. As i said, you want my sweat and blood and my forfeit of my on pleasure. Pay me. This is a game and you're not the only one with certain interests. Nor are your interest any more important than anyone elses. The OP was right. Encouraging people to do better. You are just being selfish. Demanding you get what you want and intentionally trying to make others feel bad like they are somehow the deciding factor in your own pleasure and should be ashamed of themselves. That is what i do not approve of.

[Cleftobismal]

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you keep acting like that?

It should of been clear i'm not interested in giving my best interests anymore on this thread.

It's one thing after the next with you and another. All of which stray from the OP's point.

My statement will forever stand. It's just like life. Employer or co-worker. I don't want some slacker on my team who refuses to contribute above the bare minimum. I wan't to go home and do other things. Not put in over-time that could of been avoided.


Translate that into FFXIV talk and you get the picture.

Ain't nobody got time for this nonsense.

[loreleidiangelo]

Yoshida is a smart man and says virtually nothing on this topic; the dev team just kind of shrugs whenever it comes up.

My speculation is that they don't want to promote the idea of any playstyle that might make the game seem hardcore. This isn't to say that dealing damage while healing is some kind of hardcore activity, but we have to remember that the bar for "you must be X tall to ride" this proverbial theme park is set around 4 feet. This is a business, and perception is king.

Getting people to play support in party-oriented games can be challenging to begin with because of the perception of responsibility. If it's not that, it's that PvE content with a pure healing model is usually boring as hell, and very few players are dedicated enough to their role to stick it out until end game. If the dev team stays quiet on issues of playstyle, they can let players sort out their own meta and not risk directly alienating anyone.

In my perception, the ideal situation is that new healers learn their role as they level up and (hopefully) read the objectives and start to piece together a playstyle that meshes well with all parties. It's the "healing-only" healers who get stuck in a rut, whether it's because they somehow missed the memo while leveling that DPS helps or because they've decided to boycott this interpretation of the Healer Role. In the former case I would like to help those players learn that they can play bigger and better, that they can be real powerhouses that help their parties; in the latter case I would like those players to understand that their choice, while pleasing their sensibilities, is selfish when measured against the fact that other players have to carry the weight of that choice.

I suspect that you're right, as much as it pains me to say so. In a lot of ways, the developers tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to major changes like this, and since a metric like "do healers enjoy DPSing amply in content or no?" is so subjective I doubt they have the metrics necessary to make an informed change. Couple that with the fact that while we're super passionate about the debate here, the bulk of the playerbase could not care less, and you basically have a green light for the devs to just sit on their hands and let the playerbase sort it out.

What's important to take away from this though is that healer offensive capabilities at this point are wholly intended, or else we wouldn't have gotten a plethora of new DPS moves in our kit post-50 (WHM in particular has a whopping 3/5 post-50 spells that can be used offensively). They're not going away, even if the developers try to shift the endgame focus to be more healing-intensive overall. Healer DPS is never going to entirely go away, and I think the players who think that are only setting themselves up for frustration and didappointment in the long run. Is it possible for 4.0 to adjust encounter scaling so that raids can't be largely solo-healed by a WHM with a SCH mitigating the the more painful stuff? Sure. Is this game ever going to be tuned so that healing is a constant seat-of-your-pants heart-stopper, even at the faceroll content level? Heck no.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So what if everyone doesnt play to 'optimal efficiency' ? Is the world going to end? Im sorry but I just want to have fun, I dont really care if everyone plays perfectly or not tbh

No, but you lose the right to complain about bad tanks or DPS. Regardless, it isn't so much I care whether people play to "optimal efficiency". But don't hide it beneath the guise of "its my playstyle." You're playing your job incorrectly. Own that. And don't be surprised if people who do want to progress fast aren't keen about your unwillingness to contribute.

I suspect that you're right, as much as it pains me to say so. In a lot of ways, the developers tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to major changes like this, and since a metric like "do healers enjoy DPSing amply in content or no?" is so subjective I doubt they have the metrics necessary to make an informed change. Couple that with the fact that while we're super passionate about the debate here, the bulk of the playerbase could not care less, and you basically have a green light for the devs to just sit on their hands and let the playerbase sort it out.

What's important to take away from this though is that healer offensive capabilities at this point are wholly intended, or else we wouldn't have gotten a plethora of new DPS moves in our kit post-50 (WHM in particular has a whopping 3/5 post-50 spells that can be used offensively). They're not going away, even if the developers try to shift the endgame focus to be more healing-intensive overall. Healer DPS is never going to entirely go away, and I think the players who think that are only setting themselves up for frustration and didappointment in the long run. Is it possible for 4.0 to adjust encounter scaling so that raids can't be largely solo-healed by a WHM with a SCH mitigating the the more painful stuff? Sure. Is this game ever going to be tuned so that healing is a constant seat-of-your-pants heart-stopper, even at the faceroll content level? Heck no.

Which makes me sad. At least surprise spawn packs in PotD can be a pretty intense heal check. At least compared to anything not Savage/Extreme Primals.

[Archvile78]

Whew, what a thread~

While my post won't add anything noteworthy to the thread i figured i'd post something before bed.

I'll never force any healers to DPS, whether it's during 4-man or 8-man if you ain't comfortable with it that's fine. That said, i recommend trying anyway, it won't do any harm unless you get carried away in Cleric Stance. (or the classic "i turned CS off but it's still on" mistake that happens to everyone) I'm someone who used to ignore the idea of DPS'ing as a healer simply because i felt it "wasn't important whether i did or not" to me it didn't do any difference.

Naturally, that mindset changed and nowaday i'm DPS'ing whenever possible, while keeping my party alive and, honestly, it made me appreciate those jobs far more. I always love chugging a bunch of Gravities at a pack of mob, while my tanks soak damage like a champ thanks to their CDs and my Nocturnal shields. If you're an AST main, like myself, it's even less risky to DPS thanks to Noct Sect shields. For WHM well, i toss that Asylum and a Regen and start Aero III/Assize/Stone III (even a fluid aura in there cause why not) i won't deny i enjoy seeing those 6k/5k damage with Assize/Gravity and i'm just a godamn healer and thanks to Benediction, on WHM, i can stay in CS for a looooong time during bosses. That's mainly for 4-man though, and with how easy these are it's obviously nothing to boast about.

For Savage (or 8-man in general) i tend to play it a lot more safe. In my static i'm the main healer but i've been slowly tossing some Combust/Combust II/Aero in there. I think my best dps in A9S is a mere 250 but it's still something i'm proud of considering i used to be "nope, never" about healer DPS and it's a number that i can easily improve. Attempting to DPS as a healer made me analyze those fights a lot more than i normally would so now, when i run that content, i have key moments where i can freely toss my DoTs without worrying about heals, in both A9S and A10S (and i'm sure the same will happen with A11S/A12S when i get around to clear those)

I apologize for the ramblings, i suppose i felt like giving my personal view on what happened to my healing experience once i stepped out of my comfort zone, or my disdain of healer dps if you prefer. As i said, it made me enjoy healing so much more, being able to keep my groups alive while dishing out some hurting. In the end, DPS if you desire, or stick to pure healing only if you want. What's important is playing what you're comfortable with, but don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone once in a while. Who knows, you may end up like me and the healing experience will be increased tenfolds, in a positive way.

I primarily did it for myself, not because it's considered the optimal method, and i don't regret it. The approval i received from friends and strangers, on my performances and efforts, are secondary but welcomed.

[Cynfael]

On a side note, to a point made a couple pages back now, there is almost never such a thing as sudden high damage in this game.

Estimating the probability of players screwing up is part of the healer flow chart and can easily be adapted into a full-kit playstyle.

E.g. I ran Expert last night as AST and noticed that one of my two ninja struggled to avoid AoEs. I dealt with this by timing my CS so that I would always be ready to drop it and patch him up if necessary following major AoEs, and I often pre-shielded so that I could mitigate his next mistake. When I knew that a mechanic wasn't followed immediately by another that would hit him, I kept going as planned and just made sure to fluff him before the next mechanic.