Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

[Bonkleberry]

Because dungeons are too easy and offer no challenges? Pulling the maximum amount of mobs finishes the dungeon quicker before everyone falls asleep.

Funny you'd mention that. I find myself bored when tanks large pulls. It means I have to stand there and play healbot because there will be no chance for me to DPS safely and then the dungeons takes longer to complete.

[Lilseph]

Funny you'd mention that. I find myself bored when tanks large pulls. It means I have to stand there and play healbot because there will be no chance for me to DPS safely and then the dungeons takes longer to complete.

What dungeons are you talking about? Because the "expert" dungeons (and lots of level 60 dungeons) enable you to do safe big pulls. So maybe you came accross bad tanks that won't pop a cd ever? Or are we talking about leveling dungeons? because yeah, these are tough when it comes to do mass pulls. Both the ilvl and level synch are a bane for mass pulling in these.

[AdventZero]

Snip

I know, that comment was more focused on people not answering me then about who gets blamed for what. When ever I ask what kind of pulls people want and they say something along the lines of "I don't care" I can't help but think: "No, you do care. If I pulled small right now you'd be upset that this 15-20 minute dungeon run just took 30-45 minutes." But, not wanting to start anything, I never say it in game. Instead I've just come up with a theory that their scared of me, the big mean tank (I don't really think this about myself), getting all mad at them for making me do large pulls when I might not want to, or are even able, to in the first place. So I guess you could say it's just something I sarcastically tell my self as I set off to large pull for my silent and not caring no opinion parties when I get them. ^^;

Edit: I should note that groups who don't want large pulls will normally tell me. It's just the ones who do want large pulls who get all silent about it.

[TaleraRistain]

I wish they would ask, but they don't. I get tired of big pulls, especially if we don't have the dps and the tank is paper. It means I can't help so the pull takes forever. But since big pulls are expected, tanks do it when they really shouldn't.

If YOU as a healer ask for small pulls, they bite your head off.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

Unrelated, but I echo the sentiment that big pulls are a snoozefest, both as a tank and as a healer, and have been so since the middle of the 2.X series. Regardless of role, I come close to dozing because AoE is so ridiculously simple to perform. You could macro it as pretty much any job and lose very, very little in the damage department.

And small packs aren't.

Well, I find small packs more engaging because then I actually need to start using a proper rotation in order to bring them down quickly, rather than, as an example, hitting Cleric Stance and my macro that chain casts Aero3 into several holies.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Unrelated, but I echo the sentiment that big pulls are a snoozefest, both as a tank and as a healer, and have been so since the middle of the 2.X series. Regardless of role, I come close to dozing because AoE is so ridiculously simple to perform. You could macro it as pretty much any job and lose very, very little in the damage department.

And small packs aren't? If I pull 3-4 mobs at a time and you're my healer, I literally have no use for you. Seriously, you could /sit and I wouldn't even notice because small packs just don't hit hard enough. Equilibrium, Inner Beast, DA + Abyssal Drain and Clemency make healers utterly irrelevant unless tanks pull the room. Hilariously, three of those abilities don't even have cooldowns.

Well, I find small packs more engaging because then I actually need to start using a proper rotation in order to bring them down quickly, rather than, as an example, hitting Cleric Stance and my macro that chain casts Aero3 into several holies.

For one, macro-ing abilities like that is a notable DPS loss. You should never macro anything except to give a chat warning (raise, berserk and etc). Anywho, you should still be Holy spamming with small pulls. Three mobs nets a combined potency of 540 per cast whereas Stone III is only 210 on a single target. Considering the tank will need no healing whatsoever, MP wouldn't be much of an issue. So I don't see where exactly you get to use a rotation. Likewise, DPS jobs are similar. Rockbreaker, Doom Spike and etc all remain a higher potency overall than single target abilities on 2-3+ mobs. Small pulls basically amount to the exact same thing. It only takes longer.

[Lufir]

Funny you'd mention that. I find myself bored when tanks large pulls. It means I have to stand there and play healbot because there will be no chance for me to DPS safely and then the dungeons takes longer to complete.

It is perfectly fine that you find large pulls boring. The fact is though, larger pulls are proven to be faster in 60 dungeons. There is really no opinion on it and it is silly to suggest otherwise. I'm assuming you are referring to lower level dungeons because at 60, as a healer you have more than enough skills/abilities to throw out some heavy damage while being able to keep the tank alive. My mistake if the OP was in fact referring to tanks practices pre-60. But at 60, now? There is no reason not to pull more than 3 monsters per group. You're only spending more time than necessary.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

I'm not going to waste my swiftcast on a spell that doesn't take very long to cast. It should be saved for raises, in the event that a party member dies.

I am not a bad healer. Nobody dies the first minute, all I'm saying is that it would be nice if healers slowed down enough for other roles to do their jobs.

Dude, what? Do you not remember what you said like a few pages ago or you like slapping yourself?
JUST.USE.THAT.SWIFTCAST.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

The thing is,I've been playing tank since 2.1, and I've changed my way of tanking to adapt to mass pulls, because... when we, as tanks, don't...

If YOU as a tank don't do mass pulls, they bite your head off. (and it's been a growing tendency even before I joined the game, as a matter of fact, but I think the main reason it became that important is Brayflox HM, 2.2...)

It goes both ways, really. You as healers or DDs mostly see tanks doing mass pulls because you don't tank, but me, as a tank, I see DDs and healers angry because I'm willing to take it slow (especially in leveling dungenons)... You can't just blame the tank community here, because that's the global mindset of the whole community : dungeons have to be done quickly. It's so important now that, leveling an alt as WHM, I often have to ask the tank in low level dungeons (Sastasha and such, where no one has AoEs, basically...) to not do mass pulling... and they're novices. And this is perfectly useless, because mass pulling is only useful when everyone has AoEs, when the party's DPS is higher using those AoEs than hitting only one target at a time... But mass pulling is so important in this game now that many people don't even remember that. Mass pulling is what this game consists of, nowadays, and while I do think it's a shame (I'd much rather have smaller, harder groups and longer dungeon), that's the way this game is designed. Because that's what the community, the most of them at least, want.

So why would I ask in a dungeon everyone does daily for lore tokens if they mind doing large pulls ? Of course they'll won't. And if they do, no problem, they tell me after the first pack "I'd rather have you doing smaller packs", and I don't complain. And I agree with AdventZero : usually, when a healer is not confident enough in its abilty to sustain you, he'll tell you. And there's no shame in it...

But of course, there are also players, like Bourne_Endeavor or Lufir seems to be (I don't have anything against you two, I'm just making a point here, and your exemple right over the typing box was perfect for it) that think everyone is geared enough to do large packs... But sometimes, and it happened to me recently in Xelphatol, not only is your healer rather short on his gear, but so are your DDs as well... So basically, you have a poor DPS, and while the healer can theoretically heal you, its MP will go down so much that you'll either need to wait for him to regen between two pulls, or just do smaller pulls. And as nobody likes to just sit and do nothing while someone's MP are loading, doing small pulls is, if not faster, much more appreciable. It isn't so common, though, but I'm sure both Bourne and Lufir would adapt in this situation...

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

For one, macro-ing abilities like that is a notable DPS loss.

I know it's a small dps loss to macro abilities, but the alternative will put me to sleep! Like I said before, I find using my full suite of abilities much more engaging than mashing a single button non stop for however long it takes. Much more efficient to make a macro to spam that one ability endlessly while I browse the forums.