Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

[AdventZero]

I don't really ask, mostly cause I'll just get "I don't care" or "do whatever you feel like" the few times people even take the time to reply, I just tell them "speed pulls unless you request otherwise, I don't really care either way". The reason is people don't want to be blamed if something goes wrong. The tank ask what they want, they say large, group wipes, person who asked for large pulls is at fault. On the other hand if you tell them it's speed pulls unless asked otherwise they can safely agree without fear since they can just blame the tank like always. Or in the rare case request small pulls for one reason or another. The only rule is: Always let them know, might be an easy dungeon, but that healer might be half asleep or dealing with a cold and not up to speed run standards.

[Blonde_Huntress]

SNIP

The Healer/Tank is actually not *always* the culprit, depending on the situation, on speed runs. I've played some dungeons where it was the DPS that were causing problems or were majorly at fault for being reckless. If the healer can't handle a large pull, you'll know once you have to restart if you didn't ask LOL. Pulls like that can be rough, even on someone with a decent amount of healer experience depending on the dungeon and how versed your party is on the battle flow.

Not disagreeing with you, but I just felt like that should be mentioned. Most players simply have a fluke or just can't keep up with the action. It happens, but there are definitely some instances where someone just.....sits there, hampering the group on purpose.

[AdventZero]

Snip

I know, that comment was more focused on people not answering me then about who gets blamed for what. When ever I ask what kind of pulls people want and they say something along the lines of "I don't care" I can't help but think: "No, you do care. If I pulled small right now you'd be upset that this 15-20 minute dungeon run just took 30-45 minutes." But, not wanting to start anything, I never say it in game. Instead I've just come up with a theory that their scared of me, the big mean tank (I don't really think this about myself), getting all mad at them for making me do large pulls when I might not want to, or are even able, to in the first place. So I guess you could say it's just something I sarcastically tell my self as I set off to large pull for my silent and not caring no opinion parties when I get them. ^^;

Edit: I should note that groups who don't want large pulls will normally tell me. It's just the ones who do want large pulls who get all silent about it.

[TaleraRistain]

I wish they would ask, but they don't. I get tired of big pulls, especially if we don't have the dps and the tank is paper. It means I can't help so the pull takes forever. But since big pulls are expected, tanks do it when they really shouldn't.

If YOU as a healer ask for small pulls, they bite your head off.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

The thing is,I've been playing tank since 2.1, and I've changed my way of tanking to adapt to mass pulls, because... when we, as tanks, don't...

If YOU as a tank don't do mass pulls, they bite your head off. (and it's been a growing tendency even before I joined the game, as a matter of fact, but I think the main reason it became that important is Brayflox HM, 2.2...)

It goes both ways, really. You as healers or DDs mostly see tanks doing mass pulls because you don't tank, but me, as a tank, I see DDs and healers angry because I'm willing to take it slow (especially in leveling dungenons)... You can't just blame the tank community here, because that's the global mindset of the whole community : dungeons have to be done quickly. It's so important now that, leveling an alt as WHM, I often have to ask the tank in low level dungeons (Sastasha and such, where no one has AoEs, basically...) to not do mass pulling... and they're novices. And this is perfectly useless, because mass pulling is only useful when everyone has AoEs, when the party's DPS is higher using those AoEs than hitting only one target at a time... But mass pulling is so important in this game now that many people don't even remember that. Mass pulling is what this game consists of, nowadays, and while I do think it's a shame (I'd much rather have smaller, harder groups and longer dungeon), that's the way this game is designed. Because that's what the community, the most of them at least, want.

So why would I ask in a dungeon everyone does daily for lore tokens if they mind doing large pulls ? Of course they'll won't. And if they do, no problem, they tell me after the first pack "I'd rather have you doing smaller packs", and I don't complain. And I agree with AdventZero : usually, when a healer is not confident enough in its abilty to sustain you, he'll tell you. And there's no shame in it...

But of course, there are also players, like Bourne_Endeavor or Lufir seems to be (I don't have anything against you two, I'm just making a point here, and your exemple right over the typing box was perfect for it) that think everyone is geared enough to do large packs... But sometimes, and it happened to me recently in Xelphatol, not only is your healer rather short on his gear, but so are your DDs as well... So basically, you have a poor DPS, and while the healer can theoretically heal you, its MP will go down so much that you'll either need to wait for him to regen between two pulls, or just do smaller pulls. And as nobody likes to just sit and do nothing while someone's MP are loading, doing small pulls is, if not faster, much more appreciable. It isn't so common, though, but I'm sure both Bourne and Lufir would adapt in this situation...

[Khalithar]

Well it kind of depends on the party and their gear, I can usually tell with a glance at their hp how good a group will do.

Specifically earlier today, I had a nin with 24k HP, a whm with 20kish hp, and a smn with 23k hp. I assumed they'd be fine if I pulled big and I was right, they absolutely demolished EX Gubal, we cleared the place in roughly 11 minutes. Strix was dead before he even summoned the behemoth.

[Kerwin]

Regarding OP... As a tank, I make sure to examine the dps/healer before moving on. If the ilevel seems high enough, I'll go with a big pull, if they struggle, I'll pull smaller. Also if there are casters in the group or more melee classes? It just takes a little thinking and visual confirmation to determine if the group can handle the pulls or not. Adjust as needed and no worries. Asking to pull large is not needed, but it's nice of you if you do and won't be looked down upon.

[randysquirrel]

Don't forget, dotting on the journey, not sure I've seen anyone mention that. As we're running forward and the tanks collecting mob packs, soon as he's got that flash off I'll be hitting each one with combust and aero as we're still running forward, then gravity spam when he finally does stop until I have to drop cleric and ED him. I know those dots aren't ground-breaking dps, but every little helps

[RaijinSupreme]

I had this issue recently when doing a leveling roulette running DD. The healer in our group was very new, still had the green leaf (his gear was all over the place), but the Tank was decked out level 60 gear. The tank just ran through without a word and we wiped 4 times on regular mobs, not even the bosses. The healer just couldn't keep up, but the tank didn't really care, resulting in the dungeon taking far longer than what it needed to.

I understand that the dungeons are easy and often boring or whatever, but there are people who are just starting the game and don't understand the basic concepts of gear, or even being in a party with randoms.

I still think its important for tanks to at least consider the party make up, and making appropriate decisions about how to run dungeons before lunging through every mob like its a race.

And if all you ever want to do is speed run through every dungeon you come across, then do it with people who feel the same way as you.

[PondHollow]

I still ask when tanking expert roulette, and people seem to appreciate it.