what I hope for 4.0 Battle System

[Garotte14]

The game meta has shifted several times since 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 ....so it can again shift in 4.0 ..... so I'll tell you like the last guy. I'm completely fine with you thinking all my ideas are STUPID!!! But I'll still have them and tell others about them.

The game meta did change from 1.0 to 2.0. Because it failed. Since 2.0, the "meta" has not changed. The game is successful so why change it? I'm not saying your ideas are "stupid". I never said that. I'm saying your ideas will not work in the current structure of the game. They would need to fundamentally change the game which I feel is completely selfish of one person to want to change the game that drastically for their liking when there are already thousands who are paying because they like the way it is. Why can't you understand that what your asking isn't a small change? It would completely change the entire game and the ppl who sub currently would leave.

[javid]

Shurrikhan here is a Tank Design for ya that would utilize everything we already have.

DRK, the latest addition to tanking has a few built in rewards for tanking and also an self-sustain system for MP. Though it doesn't have the best CD rotations for non-magical fights, it is the closest design to what I've suggested I want to see in game. I'll list what's already in play; then list the addendum.

Blood Price
Awesome skill!! Reward for taking dmg, AND it doesn't have to be heavy dmg, the MP return is flat, so i means you can use this as an OT during raid AOE's! Primarily though it's a MT CD. WAR and PLD have no skill comparable to this type of reward for taking dmg (closest is sheltron, however once you shield swipe....you can't keep swiping meaning its only useful for one block per sheltron... and Vengeance that hits the enemy for 50 potency).
PLD- how about they reduce the recast time on shield swipe make it a 5 sec recast! We'd notice the 10 sec difference especially during Bulwark!
WAR- how about for Vengeance they increase the potency from 50 to 150! Yes that's huge !

Enhance Unmend
This perk, though minute, is a reward for pulling. You get 30% chance Unleash is free (as DRK MP is life!!) Again WAR & PLD have no such perks for getting aggro or sustaining aggro for that matter. That can be addressed.

Reprisal
This by far (as for examples) is the best form of reward for tanking in game. If you parry any attack you get a free OGCD with a decent potency, 210, and enfeeble the Mob with a 10% damage down. Again WAR & PLD have no comparison ( actually shield swipe pacifies mobs however its only useful in dungeons...). And NO STORM'S PATH and Rage of Halone do NOT count since DRK also has Delirium and neither of those skills are reactionary benefits to MT'ing.

Low Blow
Benefits are minute since most end game mobs can't be stunned (would be nice if more situations benefit from stun); the point of mentioning this skill is it has a chance to reset its recast if you parry an attack....again another benefit for MT'ing. PLD & WAR have no such resets.

Each of the DRK skills mentioned above are examples of skills that activate (and/or are optimized) while tanking. Although parry rates are extremely low that can be adjusted in 4.0. But DRK gives you the feel that you are being rewarded for taking dmg!!

Here are the only three examples of defensive CD's that vary on AVG with stats: Bulwark, Foresight, and Dark Dance. With the exception of Foresight, the stat influences are minute on AVG; nevertheless they are examples of what I've been suggesting. They can thru little adjustment make stats influence on these CDs and other more significant. The perk doesn't have to be something you depend on, however it can be noticeable like a CRIT Adloquium (You will notice it). And the Crit doesn't have to necessarily be just more mitigation! They can use the Crit as a proc for some other tank buff; like crit CD's can be what resets WAR/PLD stun skills for example, Or reset other Defensive CDs.

They can do a lot more to reward each class for actually performing their roles optimally is what I'm saying. YES DPS WILL ALWAYS BE IMPORTANT...NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT SOLE ROLE PLAYING......

[javid]

The game meta did change from 1.0 to 2.0. Because it failed. Since 2.0, the "meta" has not changed. The game is successful so why change it? I'm not saying your ideas are "stupid". I never said that. I'm saying your ideas will not work in the current structure of the game. They would need to fundamentally change the game which I feel is completely selfish of one person to want to change the game that drastically for their liking when there are already thousands who are paying because they like the way it is. Why can't you understand that what your asking isn't a small change? It would completely change the entire game and the ppl who sub currently would leave.

GUY... you're not being productive in this thread.. just let it alone... still making strawman arguments to beat up and attempt to sound reliable. The game meta did change from 2.0 to 3.0. Secondary STATS (det, crit, parry, sks, sps )curves were all nerfed, Primary skills were adjusted, Block & parry for example no longer benefited from primary STATS, Skill speed and Spell Speed now contribute to DoT/HoT effects, etc, etc, all these major changes most definitely adjusted the game meta from 2.0 to 3.0 ....

And leave that "selfish" argument aside guy, the purpose of the forum is for exactly what I'm suggesting and for others to suggest to the developers what they want to see in the game if possible....

[javid]

They can easily design the parry stat to work like the crit stat. Having the rating effect both occurrence and potency. This way parry tanks will have their parries stick out!

For example make like base parry 20% mitigation and and 10% base occurrence then have it climb to a max of 35% mit and 25-30% occurrence base on max parry stat. For a passive ability 8.8-10.5% mitigation is a full time Rage of Halone and definitely noticeable IF they raise the avg dmg tanks eat or lower the total HPS heals dish out (along with all the nerfs I suggested). Imagine using dark dance with max parry stat( better than bulwark !!)

[Tactical]

>OP triple posting
yare yare da ze

Did you know? Random chances of mitigation sucks, because it's too inconsistent.

Parrying and blocking aren't mandatory, but more of an "oh, it happened, okay" thing. Meanwhile, if a Scholar gets a Critical Adloquium, or a Black Mage gets off a Critical Fire IV? HELLA HYPE, HELLA AWESOME.

Why? Because people love big numbers. Showing people "You cast Fire IV. Critical! Ravana lost its HP bar." is much, much cooler than "Sophia walks up slowly, and tankbusters you in the face. You take some damage (reduced by some small amount from blocking/parrying) that could have been prevented, had there been a competent healer to stop it."

I'm not sure why you mention that DRK is a Job that rewards tanking, when WAR does that, as well.

In Defiance, we have Inner Beast, an attack that heals you for the exact same amount of damage you deal with it, and Steel Cyclone, a powerful AoE that hits around the Warrior (though I'm sure a cone, much like with Overpower, would promote good tanking, so that you can keep enemies spun). Both ignore the damage penalty from Defiance, but can only be used while Warrior has five stacks of Wrath, which you can get by doing your combos or certain actions.

Thus, we can see how WAR functions as a tank: Keeping enemies focused on them with POWERFUL COMBOS and SWEEPING SLAMS, as opposed to providing a tertiary resource to use for other, puny, and pitiful attacks. While they lack PLD's or DRK's mitigation, Defiance's HP bonus allows for a competent healer to keep them alive, and continue "buying time" for DPS, who will undoubtedly save the day with their own STRIKES of JUSTICE. (Of course, if someone else is playing the role of main tank, a good WAR is perfectly content with doing some good ol' FELL CLEAVE CRITS, as stacks of Wrath are automatically converted to stacks of Abandon when going from Defiance to Deliverance).

EDIT: Funny how I opened my post in another thread with the same lines, and someone responded to me how to overcome the character limit. Life's weird sometimes, no? Here is the original pastebin, though.

[ckc22]

No thank you. I feel like most people who have an issue with tanks and healers doing their role and good dps are dps players who are bad and terrified that they can't keep up with someone who's toolkit is already half theirs.

[Madrone]

They can easily design the parry stat to work like the crit stat. Having the rating effect both occurrence and potency. This way parry tanks will have their parries stick out!

For example make like base parry 20% mitigation and and 10% base occurrence then have it climb to a max of 35% mit and 25-30% occurrence base on max parry stat. For a passive ability 8.8-10.5% mitigation is a full time Rage of Halone and definitely noticeable IF they raise the avg dmg tanks eat or lower the total HPS heals dish out (along with all the nerfs I suggested). Imagine using dark dance with max parry stat( better than bulwark !!)

They could. Yoshi-P did say in a Famitsu interview during NA fanest that it was very likely Parry and Accuracy would be removed as stats in 4.0. You'd probably still have base parries happening given some skills proc on it now, just no way to modify the trigger rate or pollute your gear substats with it. If that happened... which is likely.... and everyone'd get a dps boost in the deal... bc no more parry or accuracy.

[Sylvain]

What I hope for 4.0 is more emphasis on the role system and reward for playing good beyond you're baseline assignement

Tank should mainly be about mitigation, dps should be the reward for being a good tank. By this I mean that the more a tank mitigate damage, the higher is damage could be Example
Paladin has a rotation and new/reworked tools to increase his block chance. A good paladin would block significantly more than a bad paladin. Royal Authority has now a 30sec cooldown. Every block reduces the cooldown by Xsec. If Sword Oath is activated Royal Authority cooldown is reduced by different mean. Clemency has a more central role, through new mechanic can be instant and has an additional effec depending of the Oath, Shield Oath also grant him blocking chance, Sword Oath empower his next AA.
This way, you effectively encite the player to mitigate and take as little dmg as possible as it directly transfer into less CD on Royal Authority which in this scenario would be a huge dmg boost.
Warrior have more tool to regain health and every health regain mechanic (spare 1-2 defensive cooldown) is tied to his damage. The more a Warrior damage the more he regain health, the more he's tanky
Darknight In a good position with the whole "the better you play the more you dps and mitigate" as DarkArt already boost his highest dmg move and grants healing (not enough imo though...)

I want bosses to do much more damage with their AA so that a HoT + Fairy isn't enough to keep the tank alive. I rolled healer to heal, not to do one aoe shield and then spam a 2500 dmging spell. There is so much wrong when you request a healer to dps throughout the course of a fight. (I'm not talking about dpsing for very situationnal moment like phase transition or shield burst). If SE like the current state of healers, then they should rework raids around having 2tank, 1heal, 5dps. and not 1heal 1support healer.

i would like healer's mana to be a bigger concern.
If too many players get hit by avoidable mechanic, then healer should feel it through missing mana. And ultimately the group would wipe from a lack of heal.
In a sens, "why did we wipe?" "healer went oom" "why did they go oom?" "because too many people keep getting hit by aoe"
So even if you're dps do great dps, they can screw up the raid by taking too much damage.
AoE healing in this game is just totally broken and powerful.

bard and machinist mana recovery mechanic are also broken considering we don't even need them to refill our mana.
A healer cannot realistically be oom with these which makes overhealing something you don't really care about.
I'd rather Bard and Machinist to support in a more direct way. For instance, if the Bard has a song that only last 5sec with a 1min cooldown which increases the healing taken by the group (or healing potency of healer, wathever), if done at the right time, this would reduce the amount of heal a healer has to dish effectively making them save mana. It is more active playstyle and require more thought than "Oh you're oom, don't worry I put my mana song, [10sec later] here you go you're at 40% mana." The machinist could deploy a turret which absorbe a fixed amount of damage around it (like a small shield dome). Again, this would prevent the healer from having to heal the damage, making them save mana.

My point is that increased DPS should be acquired from doing your job properly.
A tank doing a lot of mitigation would do more damage
A dps-support (bard, mach, redmage?) through various cooldown should be able to substaintially help the group heal and dmg.
A dps properly avoid and using his defensive cooldown should take less damage, requiring less heal.
Then, ultimately, if everyone plays well and reduce the heal requirement, then the reward should be that the healer, on top of that, can add his dps.
I wouldn't mind healer's dps to be substantially boosted as a consequence, as long as dps'ing as a healer mean "everything goes smooth and everyone do their job perfectly"
The healer dpsing should be a reward from a good tank mitigation, support and proper playstyle. Not something you have to do 90% of the fight because either DPS can't do their job or SE putted some crazy DPS check.
Finally, cleric stance cooldown being only 5sec, there is a very minimal risk to enter the stance. I would like the CD to be much higher. 15-20sec. This way, if you change stance, it means something. On top of that, you can't be requested to apply your dot every 20sec.

Ask yourself, why in the first play did you roll healer or tank? To top the parser? If the only thing you enjoy is DPS why would you play a healer? to do 20% of a BLM dps?

[Xyno]

Well, what can I say. I agree with the main point of the TS, but don't agree with 1 things- to make rotations more simple. I think, that it must be balanced, but not be easy, or the game will be full (much more full) of casual idiots, that can only smash 3 buttons and they are "skilled"

[seekified]

I would certainly like content that forces each role to focus on that specific role. I enjoy healing, but dungeons are so braindead easy that I'm in Cleric Stance 95% of the time, just because I can. If that weren't the case, I'd get to heal more and actually do my job. As a counterpoint, it would probably alienate players who aren't very good at what they're doing. FFXIV is very focused on being casual-friendly, and I think that's good - it widens the game's potential audience and generates more income for SE, which means more FFXIV for us. But it does place some significant restraints on how hard they can design content.

I'd rather there were tiered difficulties of all content, with slightly higher rewards for running the harder version. Just like single player games. It'd give skilled players a bit more of a challenge, where they can focus on their chosen role's primary function, and it'd give an incentive for less-skilled players to improve.

That said, that's not a catch-all solution, and it'd probably require a fair chunk of dev time to implement (not saying they should do this retroactively though, just for 4.0+). Tweaking job balancing is a part of it as well. At this point, as a WAR main, casual content basically means that I'm a DPS who stands on the other side of the enemy. Bosses require hardly any cooldown use, and I cement my aggro for the rest of the fight with a single Unchained + Berserk'd aggro combo. It's way too easy.