Why people hate bard using songs?

[RiisWolf]

Cause instead of pushing their DPS so that they need you, your MIN/MAX perp only wants you to fluff the ONE mage and two weak healers' numbers, as all of DPS hold back, sabotaging their full potential. It makes you question why are you a bard if numbers is all they want. Just go DRG, MNK, NIN, MCH, or maybe even a BLM. DRG and MNK will bring up more damage than the BRD wasting their time singing for what little the BLM and healers will do easily. Still wanna buff party damage? Then not only are they stronger but DRG, NIN and MCH can do that for everybody, plus MCH requires no cast times to use their buffs. =D

And don't bring up this 'oh foe can increase magic damage by 10%' mess, you know those bosses force you to not attack them on and off excessively with the exception of A9S. Healers if they even do tend to the actual healing part have their primary responsibilities getting in the way of dealing damage in addition to being overall weaker to begin with. So when you do the math, you can make up for that by bringing someone significantly stronger along, especially if ya'll eliminated the need for TP/MP songs in even T9S.

That's the only reason. I trending mob of MIN/MAXer's who will do everything in their power to avoid you using your TP or MP restores even if it means never pushing their DPS as far as they can go.

[Cynfael]

your MIN/MAX perp only wants you to fluff the ONE mage and two weak healers' numbers, as all of DPS hold back, sabotaging their full potential.

What?

...will do everything in their power to avoid you using your TP or MP restores even if it means never pushing their DPS as far as they can go.

Then maybe you can explain to us the advantage of using TP and MP restoration skills unnecessarily?

I'm not understanding the correlation between using these skills and pushing DPS when A) encounter design infrequently requires them unless heavy mistakes are made in a raid environment and B) Paeon and Ballad both reduce the BRD's personal DPS. For example, if a group is TP starved due to excessive uptime, the BRD is definitely going to sing Paeon, so I don't know what you would want beyond that.

Also, I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that Foe isn't very good, because it is. It's not as if BRDs are horribly weak on their own and need Foe to make up the difference.

[Lollie]

Cause instead of pushing their DPS so that they need you, your MIN/MAX perp only wants you to fluff the ONE mage and two weak healers' numbers, as all of DPS hold back, sabotaging their full potential.

Serious question, what I believe you are saying is I should use more resources so I need mp/tp.

How as a melee. am I supposed to push my potention and more specifically the group as a whole's potential with more tp, when a) on a standard trash pull I can use my highest tp consuming ability (besides sprint of course) and if the other dps is doing so as well not run out of tp and be full for the next pull by the time the group stops (keeping in mind brd blow the ever loving s### out of mob packs), or b) be single target fighting and doing the most optimum rotations on any melee which take 4+ minutes to hit the starvation point, push my DPS and resource usage harder so I need more TP on a regular basis when your average no break encounter is under 4 minutes?

Not even factoring in mp restore because that just benefits those weak healers or that 1 mage dps, or that mp/tp songs reducing that tasty brd aoe dmg output.

[ShaneDawn]

snip

If the Bard has to consistently sing TP/MP, the bigger problem is most likely the overall raid DPS being too low, making the fights drag on for too long. No top team "pushes" their classes to their limit as you mention it in a way that actively requires the Bard/Mch to sing resources for them. Quite the contrary, in fact, as high DPS teams make singing resources redundant, as you never reach the point of starvation.

As said before, TP/MP songs will be sang during down-time periods, if possible. T9 had significant down-time. If you're talking about A9S, you can kill it in or less than 4mins without ever needing to sing TP/MP at all. If need be, the Bard should sing during minied, but idk if many groups even see that mechanic anymore.

Taking into assumption that most parties run a Ninja,with them. If there's no Ninja, then the Bard may have to sing TP on combat on some fights.

[RiisWolf]

Snip

What makes you think I'm talking about the "top team" who most likely CAN'T suffer from resource starvation because they crushed it that hard with high end gear? MIN/MAX?

I'm talking about the clowns who plague the raid scene. The ones who'd rather strike 1 of 8 trash hugging the boss at a time while there is zero reason to keep any one of them alive, there by wasting everyone's time. And I mean not a single decimate, Overpower, quick nock, blizzard 2 (summoner), holy, Gravity, or rockbreaker! The type who'll shun you for singing at all, then ask for it TP regen you just tried to give them 12 seconds later for the 12th time in a row. The type who'll honestly believes you are good if you "use all your tools" instead of using them effectively and efficiently, none of which they do at all. "Gotta use all your tools", then why aren't you using your AoEs to kill all 9 trash and damage the boss? "Gotta use all your tools", then why as a healer do you always neglect to mitigate damage while doing DPS every time? "Gotta use all your tools", then why shame the paladin for trying to save himself while there's a completely lack of healing during the AUTO ATTACKS? "Gotta use all your tools", don't lie, the very nature of your MIN/MAX means you will never use all your tools, so why make it up? "Gotta use all your tools", OK now your clearly out to fluff your own numbers, you're getting the paladin to stop attacking to recast protect everyone someone dies. Some of those same jokes refuse a little pick me up while raising 4 players, then ask for more MP, and you know that DPS healer would rather DPS and not hold back just cause "OH LOW ON MP, BETTER SAVE UP!" I'm talking about the group who'll go into savage at entry level and say who needs gear while struggling due to deficient DPS, an irrational fear of resources, consequently actual resource starvation, and maybe coordination issues, because they absolutely refuse to consider simple math, basic coordination, and ACTUAL willingness to do more than what you're used to. Turning what you say a POTENTIAL 4 minute fight into 9 or whenever the enrage is, and A9S plays the red light; green light game the least.

Last group I was with, MIN/MAX says let's regen during mini, MIN/MAX shouts turn it off during mini. That MIN/MAXer was a ninja who also asked me to give them TP at the same point of every A9S 20 times in a row with zero improvement, just before the second arm appears.

ALSO, funny how suddenly someone after my comment have been saying BRD is stronger than MCH, when I keep hearing for the longest time it was MCH. So which is it? He making something up on the fly or do I have another reason to not trust the MIN/MAXer I'm stuck with who NEVER shuts up about "WHAT THE TOP TEAMS PREFER"?

And one last thing. I never said Foe was a DPS lose, even though some people hate the cast time eating a GCD, which hurts their numbers to a degree. I said if the increase was that marginal, then you'd be better off getting on a stronger class if you care about the party numbers that much. After all I didn't say one caster and two weak healers for no reason. You know, if the increase is just 100 total DPS, and you replace the job with something 100+ DPS stronger and you never needed the regen, then no problem. If there's 100 more DPS to be had by doing more such as AoEs in a mob of trash near the boss, then do more. IMPROVE! Know the fight!

And yes they are that shallow, they only care about the damage when it comes to "MIN/MAX".

[Ilan]

ALSO, funny how suddenly someone after my comment have been saying BRD is stronger than MCH, when I keep hearing for the longest time it was MCH. So which is it? He making something up on the fly or do I have another reason to not trust the MIN/MAXer I'm stuck with who NEVER shuts up about "WHAT THE TOP TEAMS PREFER"?

How about you take a look in fflogs then you'll see which one of them it is.

[RiisWolf]

How about you take a look in fflogs then you'll see which one of them it is.

You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you see on FFlogs.
FFLogs has less to do with individual player skill and more to do with how much your friends are willing to do to make you look better. The only reasonable way to get a top ranking parse is if you get to skip out on mechanics, get fed boosted cards, have others hold off so you can pad your numbers with aoe, among other things. I know some people did exactly that even to 1UP some jerks in the raiding community in their server, because they know how untrustworthy those numbers can be and how easy it is to abuse the system.
So please give me a more trustworthy answer next time.

[Ilan]

You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you see on FFlogs.
FFLogs has less to do with individual player skill and more to do with how much your friends are willing to do to make you look better. The only reasonable way to get a top ranking parse is if you get to skip out on mechanics, get fed boosted cards, have others hold off so you can pad your numbers with aoe, among other things. I know some people did exactly that even to 1UP some jerks in the raiding community in their server, because they know how untrustworthy those numbers can be and how easy it is to abuse the system.
So please give me a more trustworthy answer next time.

You can single out push runs in there.