"Content Finder" - Please be careful

[Frein]

The problem with FFXI is that the "You need this quality of gear to participate" rule applied to everything you did in that game when really it should have only applied to dungeons, raids, and end-game crafting. Expecting a Hauby or Kote or a Purple/Brown Belt or whatever else from someone is appropriate when the content you're planning to tackle requires that kind of gear, but hunting crabs for experience/merit points should not have been a part of that, and was terrible design on SE's part.

But exp party efficiency was almost as reliant on gear as BCNMs and end-game encounters. If you brought poor gear, the performance of the party was directly affected negatively and I think it's extremely unfair for someone to expect others with significantly better gear to carry them. You simply have no right to leech other people's exp. A lot of people like to demonize demanding people as elitist pricks when in reality it's the complete opposite: those elitists simply want to make sure they aren't slowing down their peers by showing up unprepared.

Those same rural villages can be equally as terrible as the people in a bustling metropolis simply because of their own social norms shunning, excluding, or outright driving people out of their communities due to differences in opinion, religion, music, sexual orientation, and all that other lovely shit that can make conversations at the dinner table unpleasant. They're also just as willing to shelter assholes so long as the asshole is recognized as "one of their own", because it's okay to hate or be intolerant of others so long as you share the same tastes in music. Don't try to paint them as perfect little slices of heaven, because they're just as flawed and fucked up as the rest of society.

The only instances of driving people out of communities I ever witnessed in FFXI were when someone would repeatedly burn all bridges available to them. We had some of those and they pretty much got what they deserved as far as treatment from the rest of the community goes. In WoW you can pull this type of shit with no fear of repercussion.

[Quanta]

But exp party efficiency was almost as reliant on gear as BCNMs and end-game encounters. If you brought poor gear, the performance of the party was directly affected negatively and I think it's extremely unfair for someone to expect others with significantly better gear to carry them. You simply have no right to leech other people's exp. A lot of people like to demonize demanding people as elitist pricks when in reality it's the complete opposite: those elitists simply want to make sure they aren't slowing down their peers by showing up unprepared.

Right, and I agree that it's unfair to have one dude slowing down the rest of the group, and that so-called "elitists" are often just trying to bring people who will be able to handle whatever you're doing, and that exclusion is often nothing personal. My argument is that mobs used for experience point parties should not have been so overtuned in their difficulty that having a group of people with top-notch gear was a requirement to maximize gains; the goal instead should have been to ensure people in average gear can maximize their gains, with gear requirements coming into play when it came time to do dungeons, raids, and HNMs. FFXI didn't do that, hence the poor design decision.

The only instances of driving people out of communities I ever witnessed in FFXI were when someone would repeatedly burn all bridges available to them. We had some of those and they pretty much got what they deserved as far as treatment from the rest of the community goes. In WoW you can pull this type of shit with no fear of repercussion.

I wasn't even talking about the game, I was talking about life, but yes, it is a lot easier to become a ghost in WoW than it is to become a ghost in FFXI, unless you did something that would raise obvious red flags, like steal a relic/legendary. Few guilds would stay quiet if someone ran off with something like that, and other guilds would be suspicious of a dude with an extremely rare item and seemingly no prior guild history.

[Frein]

Right, and I agree that it's unfair to have one dude slowing down the rest of the group, and that so-called "elitists" are often just trying to bring people who will be able to handle whatever you're doing, and that exclusion is often nothing personal. My argument is that mobs used for experience point parties should not have been so overtuned in their difficulty that having a group of people with top-notch gear was a requirement to maximize gains; the goal instead should have been to ensure people in average gear can maximize their gains, with gear requirements coming into play when it came time to do dungeons, raids, and HNMs. FFXI didn't do that, hence the poor design decision.

How would you go about to implement this, though? I can't think of anything else than a hard cap on how fast you can gain exp (which would be horrible). If you make the enemies weaker, you simply increase the exp rate of the highly geared party in the same proportion and you're back to square one, only the little challenge there was would be gone.

[Preypacer]

But exp party efficiency was almost as reliant on gear as BCNMs and end-game encounters. If you brought poor gear, the performance of the party was directly affected negatively and I think it's extremely unfair for someone to expect others with significantly better gear to carry them. You simply have no right to leech other people's exp. A lot of people like to demonize demanding people as elitist pricks when in reality it's the complete opposite: those elitists simply want to make sure they aren't slowing down their peers by showing up unprepared.

FFS... and then people wonder what people mean when they talk about arrogant pricks in MMORPGs.

Elitist prick attitudes like yours are part of what leads to a lot of the problems we see in MMORPGs. People, like you, who seem to think the game revolves around them, and that everyone else is there only to make your gaming experience better by meeting your standards. Who the hell are you and why the hell are you so special that you get to look down on others who dare to not play up to your oh-so-impeccable standards - especially considering you had to get to where you are yourself?

Did you start at level 1 with all the best of everything? No. You had to earn it as well. Were there parties that accepted you into them even if you didn't have all the best gear? Obviously, considering you got it somehow, right? But that's different right? 'cause it was about you. It was perfectly fine for those groups to carry you when you didn't have all that gear that you so arrogantly demand of anyone joining your groups. But that same courtesy isn't extended to others.

Typical ego-centric elitist hypocrisy; condescendingly refusing others for not matching some arbitrary standard that you haven't always met either.

The #1 creed of the elitist gamer: Always forget where you came from.

News Flash: People who seek to join a group, or do a HNM fight or what-have-you aren't automatically "looking to be carried" or "looking to slow your group down". They're looking to enjoy some content and have fun in a game. The nerve of them, right?

Get over yourself.

[Frein]

Elitist prick attitudes like yours are part of what leads to a lot of the problems we see in MMORPGs. People, like you, who seem to think the game revolves around them, and that everyone else is there only to make your gaming experience better by meeting your standards. Who the hell are you and why the hell are you so special that you get to look down on others who dare to not play up to your oh-so-impeccable standards - especially considering you had to get to where you are yourself?

Did you even read the part you quoted? It's as much expecting performance from others as it is expecting performance from myself. It's about mutual respect an avoiding piggybacking on other people's backs.

It was perfectly fine for those groups to carry you when you didn't have all that gear that you so arrogantly demand of anyone joining your groups. But that same courtesy isn't extended to others.

I always had the gear I demanded. I never joined a party undergeared.

Typical ego-centric elitist hypocrisy; condescendingly refusing others for not matching some arbitrary standard that you haven't always met either.

Like I said in my post, I always met those arbitrary standards I set. It's funny how people who can't be bothered to respect other players' time always try to flip this around as if it was the elitists who are ruining their game time.

You're free to play as you like but I don't want to and shouldn't have to group with people like you.

[Blarp]

Did you even read the part you quoted? It's as much expecting performance from others as it is expecting performance from myself. It's about mutual respect an avoiding piggybacking on other people's backs.


I always had the gear I demanded. I never joined a party undergeared.


Like I said in my post, I always met those arbitrary standards I set. It's funny how people who can't be bothered to respect other players' time always try to flip this around as if it was the elitists who are ruining their game time.

You're free to play as you like but I don't want to and shouldn't have to group with people like you.

It's a video game man. I don't ever log on to an MMO thinking, "I hope I meet some strange nerds expectations today."
I mean, congratulations on having good gear and putting a bunch of effort into the game, but some people just don't care as much. Is an additional 10 STR and 20 Attack really going to make such a difference that without it the guy will be useless? No.

I'd much rather play with someone who is undergeared and cool than some douchy neckbeard who insists I go farm for four hours so I can have "optimal" gear to play the game in the optimal way.

[Frein]

It's a video game man. I don't ever log on to an MMO thinking, "I hope I meet some strange nerds expectations today."
I mean, congratulations on having good gear and putting a bunch of effort into the game, but some people just don't care as much. Is an additional 10 STR and 20 Attack really going to make such a difference that without it the guy will be useless? No.

Useless? No. But are there 99 other people who are simply better by a significant margin? Yes. When I get to choose between pretty good and very good, I pick very good. Perhaps you find this a puzzling concept?

I'd much rather play with someone who is undergeared and cool than some douchy neckbeard who insists I go farm for four hours so I can have "optimal" gear to play the game in the optimal way.

Yes, because obviously everyone who do the things they do properly are strange, douchy nerds with neckbeards. You might as well throw the good old unibrow as a cherry on top of your insulting generalization. BTW, why are you posting on these forums? Shouldn't you be doing a keg stand or something?