DF Tanks and Whm

[The_NPC]

Whenever I Tank (which will be PLD) my only self rules are: 1) Hold Arrgo on every pulled enemy & 2) use Def buff's acordingly

I only drop Sheild for Sword oath (if I feal like it) in boss fights for 3 conditions:
-Healer has shown mass skill in DPS'n & Healing on the probable large pull I did to get to the boss (or I know said healer)
-DPS are not giving me arrgo problems in Shield... especially if I stoped using Halone combo awhile ago
-Boss has predictable spots of low dmg or no dmg (won't drop it for high dmg fights, AoE or single target dodgeable or otherwise, like A12)

When I Heal (WHM only) the "Hate" I might be making is not normally seen as I have Marco's for my DMG moves baced off targeting my allies, yet with this I have never pulled arrgo of a Tank unless their not using a AOE arrgo moves on a mass pull (which cause is a "Why u not AoE arrgo controlling on a 4+ mob pull?") also Medica 2 to me is for AoE heavy fights or bonus HoT's to allow me more stance time

[Kathryn]

Y'know, technically you only need 1 DPS to actually complete any dungeon in the game. I guess next time I queue for DF as DPS I'll just afk, since apparently having more than enough DPS isn't necessary. It'd be weird if I got kicked for that, right?

Just because not everyone pushes for the same goals you think it's ok to be a complete liability to the team and do nothing.. again this is why MMO communities are going downhill as getting through content is not enough anymore its all about shaving off that few extra seconds so you can stand around afk in (location of choice) and don't use the it's my time being wasted excuse you're playing an mmo for christs sake it's the biggest timesink game you can waste time on.

I've played this game since 2010 and tbh this community is getting more WoW/LoL like every week due to people wanting everyone to play "their" way, I personally only ever get to play the game once or twice a week these days and I could give a damn if I'm pulling your wanted DPS I play for me downtime not for you.

[Zojha]

[...] as getting through content is not enough anymore [...]

Uhm...you yourself just scolded him as "complete liability" for doing the bare minimum needed for "getting through content" one sentence ago >_>

You're contradicting yourself here. Either all that matters is clearing the content, then it doesn't matter how much of a liability people are as long as the content is still getting cleared before the 90 minutes timer run out or it's not all that matters and people should attempt to perform.

There is another contradiction in telling others that the time waste argument isn't a good one in MMOs because they're innately timesink-heavy and at the same time admitting that you only play for yourself in a cooperative multiplayer game, not for others, when that, too, is innate to the genre.

I advise thinking this through for a while.

[Kathryn]

Stuff

I couldnt care less I get through the content but if he's going to just afk and be a dick then yes kick him he at least has to contribute, and I don't expect everyone to play at my pace I still do my part but I'm not going to go out of my way to make a game I enjoy a second job stop nitpicking.

[LineageRazor]

Dummy doesn't have group debuffs applied and you can't proc shield swipe; also are you using fracture? goring blade? scorn's DoT is useful too. Are you using HQ food & Pots?

Just want to point out that at 220 total potency, Fracture is a DPS loss for a level 60 PLD and should not be used. Goring combo averages 330 potency per GCD, and Royal Authority combo averages 233 potency per GCD. Fracture was a (very slight) DPS boost back at level 50 cap, with RoH combo averaging 203 potency per GCD, but those days are long gone...

[Aramina]

Uhm...you yourself just scolded him as "complete liability" for doing the bare minimum needed for "getting through content" one sentence ago >_>

You're contradicting yourself here. Either all that matters is clearing the content, then it doesn't matter how much of a liability people are as long as the content is still getting cleared before the 90 minutes timer run out or it's not all that matters and people should attempt to perform.

There is another contradiction in telling others that the time waste argument isn't a good one in MMOs because they're innately timesink-heavy and at the same time admitting that you only play for yourself in a cooperative multiplayer game, not for others, when that, too, is innate to the genre.

I advise thinking this through for a while.

Expecting someone to at least try while not expecting them to be the best are not mutually exclusive and thus not contradictory at all.

[Seig345]

Expecting someone to at least try while not expecting them to be the best are not mutually exclusive and thus not contradictory at all.

This. Expecting specific numbers of dps from a tank or healer seems unreasonable. As long as they're trying to throw some dps in whenever they comfortably can without losing control of their primary role, it's fine with me. It's when a healer just sits around when no one needs healing or a tank or dps aren't throwing on a dot or damage buff when it starts to look lazy and I might suggest something in case they're just unaware.

[Spiroglyph]

Average/bad players are plentiful in DF, this is no news - people want to clear their weekly content by facerolling and doing little else besides pressing 1-2-3 combos, but I think your post oversimplifies this a little bit.
I do sometimes do DF content as a tank, and try to use my DPS stance as often as I can - only WHEN and IF I fell that i can safely do so without losing agro or causing a potential wipe. There's situations when this is just not possible, especially if the tank has ilvl significantly lower than the ilvl of the DPS and the DPS are doing their roles and rotations as they should. For example, my tank is i250, and when I come across people decked in full i270 who know their jobs inside and out and perform more than adequately (this is unusual but it DOES happen), I have trouble keeping aggro when I get too adventurous with stance dancing.

For WHM yeah med2 is sort of not very efficient MP wise and doesn't heal much outside of divine seal, but here too I'm guilty of using it when throwing out as much regen as i can on the tank and team so I can switch to CS for as long as I can.

Besides that, it's unreasonable to expect to find only top tier players in duties, specially in DF... personally if the team finishes the instance within reasonable time and they're not obviously cheating and are at least performing moderately... it's whatever.

tl;dr both situations you mentioned are only "bad" on certain circumstances and top tier players aren't the only kind of people playing

[ToasterMan]

I just had a run expert roulette were I was not able to hold hate off of the one of the DPS without tank stance. Of course I would only drop tank stance for the bosses anyway but now I don't think I really should be doing that in randos that I don't trust. I don't care what some random player on Greg thinks about that and you guys really shouldn't either.

[aesteval]

what would be the point of playing dps when you can just go in as full tanks with 1 healer with high dps and never die? Oh wait.

Actually...for most content you can freely replace DPS with tanks. Some content you don't even need healers (including with ilvl sync.) ^_^ You were probably already getting to that point, but I wanted to voice it out loud.