A case of chronic gear imbalance

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Interestingly:
1. "raiders do not need i270" is not equivalent to "raiders must get <i270".
2. "A does not require B" does not reduce to "nothing requires B".

1 - irrelevant point. You first were saying that raiders do not need i270. When I asked you if you were crippled by the lack of 270, you said yes. When asked why, you said that you never said raiders didn't need i270.

I went and quoted you as saying that raiders don't need i270, in direct contradiction to your own later post, which I also quoted. What further explanation was needed?

2 - take another look at the overall context. If the hardest content does not require i270, then yes, nothing requires i270. So, in this context, it does indeed reduce in the exact manner you say it does not. Context matters!

[AmeliaVerves]

Amelia, please check out our last exchanges with Spayd, I think they'll help you see what I mean about the upgrading path.

I've read the last pages before posting that.

All I can see is you, looking on your neighbours plate and deciding that you are treated unfair, because that other person got more than you. But you do ignore the fact, that this person was willing to put a different type of effort in the game and therefore got another kind of reward. Yes, it is a better one and from my very personal point of view, I think it is fair that raiders get better gear in the first place, because it takes a lot of skill and a lot of time and patience to beat Alexander. (To be fair, A9s and A10s are quite easy once you got how the mechanics work, but A11s and A12s is rougher and both need a lot more time of practicing for a casual/midcore static).


But! And that is a matter of fact! You will get your chance to reach ilvl270 as well. Yes, you have to wait for it and I can see that this might be frustrating ever since it is slowing your personal progress, but please keep in mind that FFXIV is meant to be a casual friendly game. (With casuals I mean people who log in maybe 2 or 3 evenings a week and playing for maybe 1 or 2 hours.) I believe the majority of people is playing this way and from their point of view it might be nice to not log in for 2 days and then coming back, realising they are not completely left behind even though they are casuals.

You as a, as you call yourself, hardcore-grinder have loads of things to do and grind in the game and instead of bothering about raiders having 10 ilvls more than you (which is really not too bad and even most raiders would rather go with 10ilvl less than screwing up all of their 2nd stats!). Just lean back, enjoy leveling other classes, gatherers, crafters. Work yourself into gardening or housing! Maybe be a help to others, especially the newbies. You do seem to know a lot about that grinding stuff and how to equip yourself properly without savage content, so you could lead newbies the way and help them find something they like.

This game has so much more to offer than raw grinding and pushing ilvl, why don't you just try out something you haven't done before? Maybe you will be surprised how much fun there is beyond grinding. ^^

[Cordie]

1 - irrelevant point.[...]

2 - take another look at the overall context. If the hardest content does not require i270, then yes, nothing requires i270. So, in this context, it does indeed reduce in the exact manner you say it does not. Context matters!

1. Just pre-emptively defusing an n-th repetition of the "it's a reward" claim.
2. Levelling (item-level included) a character is a goal in itself. It is not exclusively a crutch to do X content with N other people. Besides, even in ilvl-sync'd content (PvP modes) the additional VIT stat of i270 is invaluable to any non-tank class. [ERRATUM in post #107 after checking in Fractal Continuum]
There you go: at least 1 global and 1 specific case showing your "nothing" is not truly "nothing". And still: "A does not require B" does not reduce to "nothing requires B".

[Cordie]

I've read the last pages before posting that. [...]

Not quite: looking at my own plate and seeing there is no way of making any progress, regardless of my willingness to put any effort in the game other than raiding.
Yes, about the grindy parts it’s uhmm… for instance: since reset, yesterday, with a couple of roulettes, some hunts and a few duties for Tails I already have my scripture cap, 1600-ish lore, and 10k-ish GC seals, and the sad part is I wasn’t even grinding lore and seals… I do think it needs a revamp. So, yep.. for the rest of the week I’m inevitably stuck with getting lore and seals for mats and a relic I’m planning out, and doing housing stuff.. but there is no real progress in doing any of these things.

[Nezerius]

2. Levelling (item-level included) a character is a goal in itself. It is not exclusively a crutch to do X content with N other people.

Even-numbered patches give non-hardcore raiders a way to increase their gear level, since the tome gear is higher ilvl than the previous patch. Following odd-numbered patches give non-hardcore raiders a way to further increase their gear level (tome upgrade items from the new 24-man raid and hunts).
Don't worry, you'll be able to grind hunts to your heart's content while the i270 gear is still useful.

Besides, even in ilvl-sync'd content (PvP modes) the additional VIT stat of i270 is invaluable to any non-tank class.

You know the VIT stat gets synced down as well, right? When an i260 piece and an i270 piece get synced down to i150 in the Feast, both pieces will have the stats of an i150 piece. The i270 piece isn't magically gonna have more VIT.

Not quite: looking at my own plate and seeing there is no way of making any progress, regardless of my willingness to put any effort in the game other than raiding.

That sounds more like: "I see no way to progress if I exclude the thing that allows me to progress"
Maybe you should give raiding a try, after all? I mean it can't be all that difficult to you, right?

[Roth_Trailfinder]

1. Just pre-emptively defusing an n-th repetition of the "it's a reward" claim.
2. Levelling (item-level included) a character is a goal in itself. It is not exclusively a crutch to do X content with N other people. Besides, even in ilvl-sync'd content (PvP modes) the additional VIT stat of i270 is invaluable to any non-tank class.
There you go: at least 1 global and 1 specific case showing your "nothing" is not truly "nothing". And still: "A does not require B" does not reduce to "nothing requires B".

1 - just pre-emptively defusing the nth repetition of a claim, and then contradicting yourself later on. Got it.

Don't really need go anywhere else after that. But, I suppose I could ...

2 - ilevel sync works by reducing the stats on gear to whatever the cap is at that ilevel. So, if you enter some content that is ilevel sync'd at 100, it does not matter if you are wearing something i110 or i270, you will get stats from it as though it is i100. So, how does the Vit on i270 help in sync'd pvp content? Also, while building your character's levels and gear is a thing, so is understanding the cyclical nature of the gear upgrades. And so too is understanding that not all content returns the same levels of gear. If you want the top gear, you have to do the content that drops it.

But yet, you still have not said how it is crippling your ability to do content without the i270 gear temporarily locked behind content you appear reluctant to do. You have the same access to i270 that everyone else does. You said that it is not necessary to beat the hardest content (which means that it is not necessary to beat any content, as a modicum of logical thought would suggest to you that anything not the hardest content must be easier than the hardest content, and thus require lesser gear; why are you attempting to claim that i270 is necessary to beat pvp?) but then claim that it is vital towards beating some other content. Which is it? The only thing you have correctly stated is that without setting foot into Creator savage, you cannot yet get i270 gear and thus cannot raise your ilevel beyond 260.

Raising your ilevel, however, is not content. Raising your levels is not content. Both of those affect your ability to do content, but they are not content in and of themselves. A Phantasia potion allows you to change how your character looks. That's analogous to getting the color of your car changed. Upgrading your ilevel would be analogous to going from street tires to off road tires on your jeep. Neither ride upgrade is the "content" - the roads you go on, or off-roading, that's the content. In FFXIV terms, the dungeons you do, the quests you undertake, the places you go, that's content. Not the character that you move around in the world, so you can experience the content.

[Cordie]

Erratum: ilvl in ilvl-synced content seems to be adjusted piece-wise. checked today with a level-synced dungeon. I trust it's the same for PvP.

[Cordie]

[...]

Everything implemented in-game, except interaction with other players, is game content. This includes quests, dungeons, raids, trials, classes, jobs, levels (class/job + item levels), melds, glamours, dyes and character appearance, cutscenes, etc.

[Nezerius]

Erratum: ilvl in ilvl-synced content seems to be adjusted piece-wise. checked today with a level-synced dungeon. I trust it's the same for PvP.

Then you must've checked wrongly. I just checked by queueing for Amdapor HM with both undersized party and minimum iLvl options checked.
An ilvl 260 chest, synced down to i90, gave me 479hp. I then left the dungeon and queued up under the same conditions, except while wearing an i230 chest.

Guess what? I ended up with the same 479hp.

But like Spayd already said on page 9, there's no reason to keep this thread alive, due to the OP's close mindedness.

[Cordie]

Even-numbered patches[...]

Still, this doesn't restore the current imbalance. It only provides an excuse for the dev team to go full-time working on the savage raid, and leaving the other method of gearing up at a quick-and-dirty 15-min grind per day for casual players. Even the relic (should have been the best item in-game, based on rarity alone) is an i260 instead of i270/275.

You know the VIT stat [...]

Saw that -posted an erratum.

That sounds more like: "I see no way to progress if I exclude the thing that allows me to progress"
Maybe you should give raiding a try, after all? I mean it can't be all that difficult to you, right?

Unfortunately not everyone is happy with raiding. And this is consistently not being addressed in any other way than the lazy approach you describe in your 1st point. It's not even being addressed at all.. simply ignored for half of the dev/design time.