Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip?

Personally, I couldn't care less, if I'm not dying. I don't know what the situation is with them, perhaps they don't enjoy an aggressive play style, perhaps they aren't comfortable dpsing with a tank they don't know. What pertinence does any of the above have to me? I'll still use my defensive cd's, take an aggressive stance as much as I feel comfortable with, and that's that. I'd be much more likely to vote kick if they let an easily prevented wipe happen while dpsing than if they never dpsed.

[VanilleFang]

snip

So you actually think it is okay for 1 player to be dead weight? Alright.

Seems weird that it's only okay if it's the healer though.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

So you actually think it is okay for 1 player to be dead weight? Alright.

Seems weird that it's only okay if it's the healer though.

I'll happily take a one minute longer duty with a healer that doesn't dps but keeps the party healthy over a healer that enjoys an aggravating dance a hairs breadth from death. There's nothing enjoyable about surviving on fumes, struggling to stay alive with last ditch clemencies/Bloodbath because the healer is more concern about his DPS meter then he is about actually doing his damn job.

[Lambdafish]

I'll happily take a one minute longer duty with a healer that doesn't dps but keeps the party healthy over a healer that enjoys an aggravating dance a hairs breadth from death. There's nothing enjoyable about surviving on fumes, struggling to stay alive with last ditch clemencies/Bloodbath because the healer is more concern about his DPS meter then he is about actually doing his damn job.

I don't think you understand the arguments towards healer DPS. I did Gubal hard yesterday as a SCH, and during the first boss I realised something. The PLD was in SwO and I was in cleric stance 95% of the fight. Do you know how much healing I did? Two lustrates. Now Imagine if I had only healed that fight, and not thrown out any DPS.

No, I'm not a superstar raid healer, in fact my healing is fairly mediocre and I play it safe a lot, but I know why healer DPS is important.

[Jaeifer]

I'll happily take a one minute longer duty with a healer that doesn't dps but keeps the party healthy over a healer that enjoys an aggravating dance a hairs breadth from death. There's nothing enjoyable about surviving on fumes, struggling to stay alive with last ditch clemencies/Bloodbath because the healer is more concern about his DPS meter then he is about actually doing his damn job.

The real question is when you consider something last ditch.
Clemency when you have 8000 HP left? Waste.

Bloodbath should never even be used as a last ditch effort, you use it as a sustain self heal when your damage CDs are up.

I let tanks drop to 4000 hp and less voluntarily while DPSing as an AST to get the most of my Essential Dignity.
A healer doesnt need to keep you 100% topped all the time, thats not his job. He has to keep your HP to a point where it's always more than zero.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The real question is when you consider something last ditch.
Clemency when you have 8000 HP left? Waste.

Bloodbath should never even be used as a last ditch effort, you use it as a sustain self heal when your damage CDs are up.

I let tanks drop to 4000 hp and less voluntarily while DPSing as an AST to get the most of my Essential Dignity.
A healer doesnt need to keep you 100% topped all the time, thats not his job. He has to keep your HP to a point where it's always more than zero.

Try 1k or less HP. More often then not I wind up with my casts going off at my last 1%-.5% of my HP remaining and bloodbath is always kept on CD so I can get as much self healing as possible out of it. I have absolutely no faith in dps healers, as all the ones I've come across were more interested in dpsing than keeping people in a 'not dead' state.

[Jaeifer]

Try 1k or less HP. More often then not I wind up with my casts going off at my last 1%-.5% of my HP remaining and bloodbath is always kept on CD so I can get as much self healing as possible out of it. I have absolutely no faith in dps healers, as all the ones I've come across were more interested in dpsing than keeping people in a 'not dead' state.

If they let you drop that low and there's no heal from the healers at the moment you self-healed yourself then they're just bad, point given.
But then it becomes a matter of not generalizing that to every DPSing healer.

[Cleftobismal]

Snip

You're over generalizing a bit. I know when i dps I'll always weave in heals if the tank refuses to use any defensive CD for whatever reason after a big pull. At the same time I would use celestial opposition to extend light speed for Gravity spams. With this alone im able to spam 2 gravity's before the stun wears off on all the mobs and then some until the tanks hp is rapidly going down the halfway mark. (Depending on the tanks gear and the rate of their hp decreasing I may continue to clear the mobs until their hp is 35%.)

If your hp was really 1k or less in 60 content pulls. You'd be dead before the healer would react, unless your taking HP loss at an extremely low rate by some miracle. (HG + regens)

To give you some insight as to why we healers like to add in some DPS when we can. It's the same exact reason why you tanks bother to use GCD, despite the healers capabilities to keep you alive without them. You lower the HPS requirement on our part, which in turn gives us time to DPS.

Now if you truly wan't a healer to not have the time to DPS. Don't use your GCD then. You may understand this point after the party asks you why you aren't using your GCD.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If your hp was really 1k or less in 60 content pulls. You'd be dead before the healer would react, unless your taking HP loss at an extremely low rate by some miracle. (HG + regens).

Thank you for supporting my point that CS promotes sloppy play. Incidentally, that's also not completely correct either, as it's very possible to time Clemency to land on myself right as I'm about to die, something I've had to do numerous times because healers would refuse to pop out of cs to heal me. I've healed and tanked pretty much all content that I enjoy doing, and I do realize why healers like dpsing, as it's something I grudgingly do despite how boring the healers dps 'rotation' is. Incidentally, it's hardly generalizing when literally every dps focused healer I've never had would've resulted in a wipe if I was anything other than a pld.

[VanilleFang]

...

I never said choose between someone who will heal you and someone who might kill you. And why is it so black and white with you?

How about this: would you rather a healer who only heals or a healer who heals and uses Cleric Stance properly?