Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[Cleftobismal]

Snip

You're over generalizing a bit. I know when i dps I'll always weave in heals if the tank refuses to use any defensive CD for whatever reason after a big pull. At the same time I would use celestial opposition to extend light speed for Gravity spams. With this alone im able to spam 2 gravity's before the stun wears off on all the mobs and then some until the tanks hp is rapidly going down the halfway mark. (Depending on the tanks gear and the rate of their hp decreasing I may continue to clear the mobs until their hp is 35%.)

If your hp was really 1k or less in 60 content pulls. You'd be dead before the healer would react, unless your taking HP loss at an extremely low rate by some miracle. (HG + regens)

To give you some insight as to why we healers like to add in some DPS when we can. It's the same exact reason why you tanks bother to use GCD, despite the healers capabilities to keep you alive without them. You lower the HPS requirement on our part, which in turn gives us time to DPS.

Now if you truly wan't a healer to not have the time to DPS. Don't use your GCD then. You may understand this point after the party asks you why you aren't using your GCD.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If your hp was really 1k or less in 60 content pulls. You'd be dead before the healer would react, unless your taking HP loss at an extremely low rate by some miracle. (HG + regens).

Thank you for supporting my point that CS promotes sloppy play. Incidentally, that's also not completely correct either, as it's very possible to time Clemency to land on myself right as I'm about to die, something I've had to do numerous times because healers would refuse to pop out of cs to heal me. I've healed and tanked pretty much all content that I enjoy doing, and I do realize why healers like dpsing, as it's something I grudgingly do despite how boring the healers dps 'rotation' is. Incidentally, it's hardly generalizing when literally every dps focused healer I've never had would've resulted in a wipe if I was anything other than a pld.

[VanilleFang]

CS promotes sloppy play.

How? It's not CS that is sloppy, it's the player. If the player practiced enough they wouldn't be sloppy.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

How? It's not CS that is sloppy, it's the player. If the player practiced enough they wouldn't be sloppy.

CS seems to help promote the concept that healers can ignore the rest of the party for the sake of their own numbers. I can count the number of competent uses of it(not including the people in my own fc) on one hand, and pretty ugh every use of it I've seen has led to panic attacks as I desperately try to keep myself alive with my own self heals while the healer ignores their job as healer and let's me die. And to answer your earlier question, I'd prefer a healer that just heals, as that not only allows me to comfortably sit in dps stance, but also pretty much guarantees a smooth, stress free run.

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that'll happily votekick a healer for focusing so much on dps that they let an easily prevented wipe happen, either.

[VanilleFang]

snipperoo.

I would kick a healer who ignores their primary role as well.

If you don't think it's possible for a tank to stay in their DPS Stance just because the healer decided to use CS then... I don't know who you've been playing with.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I would kick a healer who ignores their primary role as well.

If you don't think it's possible for a tank to stay in their DPS Stance just because the healer decided to use CS then... I don't know who you've been playing with.

I'm more than happy to sit in dps stance regardless, though some of the healers I've ran into certainly seem to support that train of thought. I actually had a scholar in full raid gear cuss me out in A9N last week because I was main tanking in SwO. Naturally, I pointed out their apparent competency as a healer thanks to their gear, whilst rotating cd's, and they responded by dissipating their fairy and leaving it unsummoned for the rest of the fight, while the AST worked alone to keep everyone up. It was remarkably hilarious, especially when I questioned why they wanted ShO.

I am not going to risk going into CS and compromising healing with a group of people who can't DPS out of a wet paper bag.

That's odd, I would say CS is even more mandatory at that point, personally, since that's one of the situations where I feel obligated to turn it on despite hating the play style.

I have to agree with some of what your saying because my healing has been put under pressure by a healing partner that stayed in cleric to sow how skilled she was at dps/ healing, becuase it is more 'valued' I was kicked for healing.

Youch... that sucks. I would've berated the other healer for not helping out if I'd seen that you were struggling. :c Sucks.

You and Thunda_Cat seem to have to same problem. It's like all or nothing with you guys.

It really is all or nothing. Cleric stance doesn't teach a healer how to play, they get pretty much no feedback on whether it's safe to use or not, whereas tanks that hop into dps stance at the wrong time are left sitting ducks, at the expense of precious resources, ((PLD/DRK)) or 10 seconds of extra vulnerability that an uninitiated tank won't have the foresight to properly mitigate. Healers get 5 secs of weaker heals, but those 5 seconds are so easily covered by other sources that it feels like a slap on the wrist more than anything.

[AmeliaVerves]

It really is all or nothing. Cleric stance doesn't teach a healer how to play, they get pretty much no feedback on whether it's safe to use or not [...]

Ehm... what?!
Please enlighten me if I am wrong, but does that mean the knowledge when to DPS and when not was brought to me one night by... I don't know... Toothfairy? o.O Because I am quite sure I learned it by wiping and then realising "Oopsie daisy... I should have not made damage there, but should have healed more. ^^' "

A little question: My best friend is mostly able to solo heal A9s and A10s with her WHM, so me as off heal is meant to... stand around? Watching Netflix, waiting for the 2 moments in the fight where she needs a little assistance and being carried just because CS is bad and made by the devil and you shall not uuuuuuseeeeeee!!! (A little exaggeration here...)

Have you ever thought about CS could be more save when the entering CD was removed instead of removing a skill every healer needs to do the MSQ in an appropriate time instead of it taking 10 minutes to kill 2 enemies?
Sorry, but me as a healer could just turn it around and say: "Damage stances should be removed, because tanks are meant to mitigate damage! They keep me from using my whole toolkit! So I want it to be removed!"
(Btw, were you aware of the fact that overhealing pushes a healers hate more than anything else? So going in CS and dps actually does assist you in damage stance. :P)
I hope you see the point, but I fear you do not, because you seem very close-minded and as if you don't want to think about different opinions or accept others see things differently.

I don't really mind if CS would be deactivated in general dungeons, but you should be aware of the fact that a loooot of healers will start joining in as tanks or dps ever since healing will become frustratingly boring. (Leading to extra bonus for healers in roulette dungeons, because they're wanted class then? xD) Me personally, I would still join as SCH, go on auto follow and let Eos take care of you, ever since I wouldn't have anything to do there.
But if you want to touch CS in raids? No way, never want this to happen!!! I love my SCH and I love being able to contribute a fair amount of dps to burst the boss even faster.

[MaikoRaines]

That's odd, I would say CS is even more mandatory at that point, personally, since that's one of the situations where I feel obligated to turn it on despite hating the play style.

That way of thinking will always put the party at risk of a guaranteed wipe.

This also depends on the fight. If you have people who are new and unfamiliar to the fight who isn't up to snuff, longevity VS DPS any day of the week in the event of newbies. They need to learn the fight and their follies, and you need to ensure they stay up long enough to figure out they need to get better. Much like how I run Void Ark and can easily solo heal it while throwing down ample DPS. I've covered it more than enough where I know that Medica 2, Regen and Asylum are the top three spells I ever really cast while throwing down the hurt. Especially in that third fight where it's a ton of AOE damage.

I run with the same core group of people on a regular basis. When I run with a random pick up group, notice they're owning it, and see me jumping into the fray, I nail everyone's commendations for being versatile. I don't HAVE to DPS, but for those next few minutes, I'm part of a team. I do my part.

You might hate the playstyle and that's fine. You can figure it out for yourself. But when it risks wiping the fight because you don't feel it's dying fast enough... you might want to reconsider your role a bit more carefully.

To add to this, if you actually feel strongly that CS is only meant for one purpose such as picking up weaker DPS, then I think you may need to re-evaluate your skillset as a healing class.

Anyways, I'm done trying to convince you. You're set on your ways. This works for me 100% of the time. Squeenix will never change the mechanics of healers as they are working as intended - and you're arguing a losing battle here.

Besides, my commendations earned speak more than any words have.

Good luck.

[Feyona]

CS seems to help promote the concept that healers can ignore the rest of the party for the sake of their own numbers. I can count the number of competent uses of it(not including the people in my own fc) on one hand, and pretty ugh every use of it I've seen has led to panic attacks as I desperately try to keep myself alive with my own self heals while the healer ignores their job

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that'll happily votekick a healer for focusing so much on dps that they let an easily prevented wipe happen, either.

I have to agree with some of what your saying because my healing has been put under pressure by a healing partner that stayed in cleric to sow how skilled she was at dps/ healing, becuase it is more 'valued' I was kicked for healing.

[Cleftobismal]

Thank you for supporting my point that CS promotes sloppy play.

If that's your argument then I could of been saying your stances promote sloppy play. But I can't because I know everybody is different. Something I don't think you've yet to understand. Or rather, you don't want to.