i am not mass pull tank

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Eh, I don't see how a mnk can't be bad at AoE when RB is their only respectable AoE on the gcd, but w/e. :3 I just take my brd or mch if I want speed runs.

"Arm of the Destroyer" > "Twin Snakes"/"True Strike" > "Rockbreaker"; .

I'm well aware that AoD is an AoE that sees more benefits past 5 mobs, but the chip damage is so minimal at only 50 potency, maybe 200/400 a mob at my ilvl that I'd rather just use more rock breakers, since it's annoying to waste so much tp on what basically qualifies as a gentle lovetap. Course, my mnks I210 anyway, since it's only something I use for expert roulette.

[Kosme]

You're talking about bad players, I'm not. Only people who don't know how to play melee say Melees can't sustain AoE.

Yup. I just wonder how often this point needs repeating in this thread before people read it.

Eh, I don't see how a mnk can't be bad at AoE when RB is their only respectable AoE on the gcd, but w/e. :3 I just take my brd or mch if I want speed runs.

That brings me to one of the benefits of running a parser. I don't care who does or who doesn't, but it takes much of the guesswork and/or hard work out of knowing whether or not you're good at your job.

Apparently there are quite a few people in this thread alone who don't know the potential of the jobs they play, and are unaware that they're experiencing a skill/knowledge issue as opposed to a game/job balance issue.

[Jim_Berry]

Yup. I just wonder how often this point needs repeating in this thread before people read it.


That brings me to one of the benefits of running a parser. I don't care who does or who doesn't, but it takes much of the guesswork and/or hard work out of knowing whether or not you're good at your job.

Apparently there are quite a few people in this thread alone who don't know the potential of the jobs they play, and are unaware that they're experiencing a skill/knowledge issue as opposed to a game/job balance issue.

A parser wouldn't be necessary if people didn't ALWAYS expect fast runs. Why are you parsing me in a dungeon anyway? It has gotten so bad that a group kicked a DRK because he wasn't "dps'ing" enough........in a dungeon!

If you want stuff to die fast, create it in PF because you have DF players who care less about how you look at their performance.

If the TC can't mass pull, why force it if he took time to let us know that he can't. If he tries and mess up to meet demands, he will lose morale. When I play healer, I welcome the kick because I can't dps as WHM, and am NOT going out my way simply because you guys want fast runs. Again, create a PF for that.

[Kosme]

A parser wouldn't be necessary if people didn't ALWAYS expect fast runs. Why are you parsing me in a dungeon anyway? It has gotten so bad that a group kicked a DRK because he wasn't "dps'ing" enough........in a dungeon!

If you want stuff to die fast, create it in PF because you have DF players who care less about how you look at their performance.

If the TC can't mass pull, why force it if he took time to let us know that he can't. If he tries and mess up to meet demands, he will lose morale. When I play healer, I welcome the kick because I can't dps as WHM, and am NOT going out my way simply because you guys want fast runs. Again, create a PF for that.

The context of the conversation isn't whether or not parsers are necessary, nor have I suggested any necessity to use parsers to be good. My bringing it up was simply a suggestion that it's one of many viable (and powerful) ways to improve your game, if that's what you're interested in. People have made certain statements about the abilities of melee jobs in dungeon combat, and the point I'm trying to drive home is that if these people knew the ins and outs of said jobs, they'd quickly realize their statements are false.

As for wanting stuff to "die fast" in DF, every party doesn't have to be some shining pillar of efficiency, and I in no way condone forcing people to play in a certain style. However the "speed runs" of yesterday have become the normal runs of today, and you can't fault people for expecting the norm when they queue for content.

[Jim_Berry]

As for wanting stuff to "die fast" in DF, every party doesn't have to be some shining pillar of efficiency, and I in no way condone forcing people to play in a certain style. However the "speed runs" of yesterday have become the normal runs of today, and you can't fault people for expecting the norm when they queue for content.

Don't have to be, correct, but it's what's demanded or expected, and it isn't fair to those who can't handle doing it.

[Kosme]

Don't have to be, correct, but it's what's demanded or expected, and it isn't fair to those who can't handle doing it.

The second half of my post you bolded explains why it's expected. In DF more often than not tanks tend to go for the big pulls, especially in level 50+ dungeons. Some tanks will first ask the healer/party what is preferred, which shows a willingness to play it either way on their part. It's a pattern of player behavior that's become so commonplace, it's now widely expected, and that sounds pretty fair to me. What's unfair is blatant rudeness to others due to differences in play style, but you'll never be able to escape stuff like that in a multiplayer game.

[bardaboo]

, and it isn't fair to those who can't handle doing it.

If we're talking about tanks and healers, pretty much everyone who is pro speed run has said "if the tank.or healer is uncomfortable than that's fine". The real issue arises from the stubborn. "If they do big pulls I'll just stick to single target.. blah blah blah... dps who CHOOSE not to do an aoe rotation out of spite. Every job in this game has, at the very LEAST, decent aoe (looking at you ninja) but still the aoe potential to speed up a run. And honestly if it's a dps complaining about speed runs I'm 1. Going to ignore him 2. going to rely on the healer and other dps to pick up their slack 3. Boot them for harassment. Take your pick

[Kaurie]

Don't have to be, correct, but it's what's demanded or expected, and it isn't fair to those who can't handle doing it.

There is very little reason that someone could not handle it. You literally run through a group, press 1 skill, run to 2nd group, press 1 skill, press 1 skill, press 1 skill - voila you have all the agro and you just keep doing it. If you're so inclined, you can even use one of those pesky cooldowns, but they're not really required with the ultra-low-damage seen in expert roulettes.

[Mugiawara]

There is very little reason that someone could not handle it. You literally run through a group, press 1 skill, run to 2nd group, press 1 skill, press 1 skill, press 1 skill - voila you have all the agro and you just keep doing it. If you're so inclined, you can even use one of those pesky cooldowns, but they're not really required with the ultra-low-damage seen in expert roulettes.

But what is so difficult about pulling a bunch of dudes, AoE emnity then using a CD of some description?
Cmon, the bar for casual content is pretty low but this is ridiculous.

Well if you're a new undergeared tank and you're sitting around with i250 + DPS + Healer then yeah, it might be kinda hard to manage your aggro.
EDIT: I'm only talking about just new ones and low/undergeared ones.

[Pells]

There is very little reason that someone could not handle it. You literally run through a group, press 1 skill, run to 2nd group, press 1 skill, press 1 skill, press 1 skill - voila you have all the agro and you just keep doing it. If you're so inclined, you can even use one of those pesky cooldowns, but they're not really required with the ultra-low-damage seen in expert roulettes.

It's not more efficient if you're not using all your skills. Pop those cooldowns so you can get more dps out of the healer.