Jump Potion...again

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's a fair request. A lot of the players who pay their way through content are going to be...less than stellar to put it mildly. WoW is an excellent example of that - players paying to skip large swathes of content only to have very little grasp of the game outright or simply beyond the end game content.

No, it isn't. Ironically, it's the same elitism people accuse hardcore raiders of. Should I assume all people who aren't clearing Savage suck? After all, I'm almost through A12S. And everyone who has already cleared should look down on me as a complete scrub they wouldn't dare play with.

[Celef]

No, it isn't. Ironically, it's the same elitism people accuse hardcore raiders of. Should I assume all people who aren't clearing Savage suck? After all, I'm almost through A12S. And everyone who has already cleared should look down on me as a complete scrub they wouldn't dare play with.

There is a difference between being elitist and expect people to take some times to learn their job. Those people will ding 60 and probably try dungeons asap without reading their spells -_-
If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

There is a difference between being elitist and expect people to take some times to learn their job. Those people will ding 60 and probably try dungeons asap without reading their spells -_-
If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

Because he doesn't enjoy the story and didn't want to spend 60+ hours spamming esc/numpad 0? Once again, that sounds like elitism. I joined a static with members who have cleared A3S before any nerfs despite having no prior raid experience. My only clears at the time were A9S and A10S. They still took me and the raid leader offered some constructive feedback. Comparing this your statement, I should have been shunned away because I wasn't good enough. You're assuming someone is trash because they skipped story-- in the same manner elitist players assume people who haven't cleared equally challenging content are also trash. Would you judge Mizzteq? She's openly admitted to having skipped all the cut scenes and basically plays only for endgame raiding or to make her guides for the community. Or what about my quote earlier? I leveled through potd and fates. So what exactly did all those dungeons teach me? I didn't even level my two current mains through any of them.

[Neophyte]

If I encounter someone having difficulties I always try my best to help if I know the class (and even if I don't I try speculate with him and take the time to try things) but if I encounter someone who skipped it via a potion AND has difficulties...han han, sorry but he had it coming.

And that's elitism... the same as to expect a new raider who 'skipped' A1s-A8s, now starting with their first raid ever in A9s, to do the other ones (including level 50 synch Coils). Because how should they have learned raiding without that and why should they allowed to learn raiding in current content?

I rather teach someone with an empty head, than someone with a head already filled with the most stupid things... like teaching a new lvl 60 healer to get used to dps right away without him saying "I did 150h of playtime fine with doing no damage in dungeons."

I rather teach someone new than someone who still didn't got all those things MSQ supposedly teaches a new player according to you. Still, after 168h of playing.
And you're concerned about player quality? Then kick those scrubs...

You rather help such a person than a blank sheet?

[Theodric]

-snip-

People have the right to screen players as they see fit though. I can't recall the exact phrasing used but in dungeons it's perfectly acceptable to kick players for 'differences in playstyle' if there's a problem with their performance. Elitism isn't necessarily always a bad thing- I'm generally pretty easy going and will do my best to help people through a dungeon even we wipe again and again so long as they're trying. Others won't be so patient, however - and I don't blame them given how valuable free time can be. A player who seeks to skip large swathes of the game's content to only focus on the end game isn't...really somebody I want to interact with.

If that mentality becomes the norm then it will very likely lead to old content being left to stagnate. This is, to some extent, inevitable - but it could cause a major shift in development to the point where only the end game matters and little else; much like what WoW succumbed to in its later years.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People have the right to screen players as they see fit though. I can't recall the exact phrasing used but in dungeons it's perfectly acceptable to kick players for 'differences in playstyle' if there's a problem with their performance. Elitism isn't necessarily always a bad thing- I'm generally pretty easy going and will do my best to help people through a dungeon even we wipe again and again so long as they're trying. Others won't be so patient, however - and I don't blame them given how valuable free time can be. A player who seeks to skip large swathes of the game's content to only focus on the end game isn't...really somebody I want to interact with.

If that mentality becomes the norm then it will very likely lead to old content being left to stagnate. This is, to some extent, inevitable - but it could cause a major shift in development to the point where only the end game matters and little else; much like what WoW succumbed to in its later years.

Except that isn't what is being discussed. You're advocating for segregation on the basis someone who purchased a skip potion would automatically be a terrible player, unwilling to learn. Celef outright admittedly they wouldn't even help them; instead gloating over their inexperience because, and I quote, "they had it coming." I'll reiterate once more, how does someone who skipped differentiate from someone who leveled through potd or fates? Guess we shouldn't interact with them. After all, they missed out that oh so valuable dungeon experience. That same dungeon experience where I'll be spamming Impulse Drive or Fire/Blizzard 1 until level 30. Riveting, by the way.

Honestly, good. There comes a time when old content needs to die. I've only played since last year and am already a little tied of being dragged back into old Primals or dungeons. I can only sympathize with people who have stayed subbed for three years. I either want all the EX Primals bumped up to 70 to reassert their challenge or leave them be for new content. Keeping old content alive is nice, but it eventually just becomes a bore.