Opening as a Dark Knight?

[Gildarts]

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even with war pulling he can do 3FC opener, thats what most top groups do, they only have Defiance for tomahawk or overpower hate would be close however its best overall DPS for MT/OT, also would require nin shade ;3

[aleph_null]

even with war pulling he can do 3FC opener, thats what most top groups do, they only have Defiance for tomahawk or overpower hate would be close however its best overall DPS for MT/OT, also would require nin shade ;3

Is it worth it though? You'll miss a huge part of litany, trick and hypercharge during your berserk. I have heard some good wars say that it's not worth holding berserk that long just for the third berserk cleave.

[Gildarts]

Is it worth it though? You'll miss a huge part of litany, trick and hypercharge during your berserk. I have heard some good wars say that it's not worth holding berserk that long just for the third berserk cleave.

huh you won't be holding it for long, you will pop zerk after second heavy swing would still get 2FCs in trick and have most of buffs up

its highest hitting opener was it you on MT or OT

[aleph_null]

huh you won't be holding it for long, you will pop zerk after second heavy swing would still get 2FCs in trick and have most of buffs up

Yeah but litany and trick would only last until those first two cleaves, leaving the remaining 7 gcds in your berserk unbuffed, and hypercharge will only last halfway through your berserk. I just took a quick glance at the 5 fastest a12s clears on fflogs, 4 out of the 5 wars pop berserk around their first 3-4 gcds, and only one of them pop berserk after doing 2 combos in unchained (technically one of the 4 wars did a berserk triple cleave opener without unchained though, so we can rule that one out). Popping berserk earlier sacrifices the third cleave, but it won't be completely gone since you'll do it anyway after the berserk window, so it's a loss of 250 potency (excluding maim/eye), but you gain like 4 more berserk'd gcds under litany and trick.

I hope someone can clarify the math here. I was under the impression that holding berserk until after your second combo (third heavy swing) is not worth it if you have drg/nin/mch, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[Gildarts]

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nope

you will be able to land 2fc plus butcher combo.

again you probably mistaken this opener with 7 gcds one, this one require Infuriate>wait30 sec raw or veng then pull around 10sec or so.

[SpookyGhost]

nope

you will be able to land 2fc plus butcher combo.

again you probably mistaken this opener with 7 gcds one, this one require Infuriate>wait30 sec raw or veng then pull around 10sec or so.

There's some disadvantages to the 3x FC MT opener. Mainly that you'll need to delay Berserk by 4-5 GCDs meaning that, like aleph_null said, your TA window will be full of non-Berserk'd GCDs. On top of that by delaying Berserk you're also losing potential aggro generation, which could come back to haunt your DRK later. An even more important point, though, is that you're completely wasting RI or Vengeance as a defensive CD by popping it pre-pull. You're also delaying RI/Vengeance until after both FCs, this is especially harmful for Vengeance as now you're in a situation where you either need to have the WAR as MT for an even longer period of time (cutting into Reprisal and LB proc chance) or you have to swap and waste a bunch of Berserk'd Vengeance reflects.

Personally I'm a fan of this opener:

[Unchained] -> Tomahawk/Overpower -> [Foresight + Awareness] -> HS -> [Brutal Swing + Bloodbath] -> Maim -> [IR + RI] -> Eye -> [Berserk + Vengeance] -> HS -> SS -> [Equilibrium] -> BB -> [Deliverance] -> HS -> FC -> [Infuriate] -> FC -> Maim -> Eye -> Fracture -> [Pacify]

e: Should also mention that this is assuming we're using Unchained, if we forego Unchained then your TA alignment is better (since you're doing the standard 50s OT opener as MT) but you're also losing a ton of aggro (which means more PS), Defiance's HP buffer, and Equilibrium's heal.

[Gildarts]

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you are wrong dude, you will land the 2FCs and entire butcher combo in TA so you hardly lose anything.

as i mentioned hate will be close thats why in speed runs you need nin shade and as for CDS for busters you hardly need them, example A12S you will only need holmgang for heart+cleave and likely second one to be skip if the PT DPS is good if not, drk should have it by that time to either LD or w/e

you can check rushers videos at least they are out and you will see what i mean ;o

[aleph_null]

nope

you will be able to land 2fc plus butcher combo.

again you probably mistaken this opener with 7 gcds one, this one require Infuriate>wait30 sec raw or veng then pull around 10sec or so.

I thought we were talking about the unchained opener, I guess that was my bad. But if you want the aggro lead I'd sacrifice one berserk'd cleave for unchained. Not to mention berserk'd equilibrium can probably save a healer gcd or two during the opener.

This is what I thought you were talking about: Unchained > Tomahawk > Eye combo > Block combo > HS > Berserk > etc.

[Unchained] -> Tomahawk/Overpower -> [Foresight + Awareness] -> HS -> [Brutal Swing + Bloodbath] -> Maim -> [IR + RI] -> Eye -> [Berserk + Vengeance] -> HS -> SS -> [Equilibrium] -> BB -> [Deliverance] -> HS -> FC -> [Infuriate] -> FC -> Maim -> Eye -> Fracture -> [Pacify]

e: Should also mention that this is assuming we're using Unchained, if we forego Unchained then your TA alignment is better (since you're doing the standard 50s OT opener as MT) but you're also losing a ton of aggro (which means more PS), Defiance's HP buffer, and Equilibrium's heal.

Wait, how do you have unchained at the beginning, infuriate in the opener as well as RI+Vengeance? XD

[Gildarts]

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well my bad im so bad at explaining i guess ;3