Lore Book Revelations

[Zojha]

They may be video game characters, but we're supposed to care about our allies, dammit.

The game isn't doing a very good job at making us - or at least some of us - care I'm afraid. That's in no small part due to them being associated with hollow dialogue, stealing our show in combat prowess against the presentation of the rest of the game and menial fetch quests that do nothing but bar our progress to things we would rather do. As player, I was "glad" when Ul'dah happened and merely cynically remarked:"That's too good to be true, they'll come back somehow. Can I get to Ishgard now?"

There's a very strong disconnect between my character and my out of character self as far as feelings are concerned. I'm not happy when I see Alphinaud, I groan because my first association is: Mandatory fetch quest. And the natural reaction is:"Please just go away and never come back.", rather than the:"I'm so happy to see you!" My character seems to do.

[alimdia]

I dare say Minfilia was the most hated NPC in ARR, just because anything involving Minfilia also involved fetch quests and having to travel 3x more than necessary for menial tasks

[Tracewood]

I dare say Minfilia was the most hated NPC in ARR, just because anything involving Minfilia also involved fetch quests and having to travel 3x more than necessary for menial tasks

To be fair, (SPOILER)

they DID make her a sacrifice so that could count as a "death" that probably won't get reversed in any way.

(SPOILER)

[Balipu]

You do realize what a terrible thing that would be to say about living human beings, right? They may be video game characters, but we're supposed to care about our allies, dammit.

Terrible or not, the fake death cliffhanger is the cheapest plot device ever. I mean I was sure some would survive Ul'dah. As the game mascot Y'shtola pretty much has immunity, but as of 3.4 even Minfilia is alive. Nanamo's death was so important that it made it into the intro cinematic, yet it was outdone halfway into the HW main scenario. I do care about some of my allies. I just think the ending of 2.55 was freakin terrible. Especially now that it turns out it didn't ammount to anything at all.

To be fair, they DID make her a sacrifice so that could count as a "death" that probably won't get reversed in any way.

Errr how far are you into the Main Scenario?

[Fenral]

To be fair, they DID make her a sacrifice so that could count as a "death" that probably won't get reversed in any way.

Talk to F'lhaminn. Minfilia will be back for the finale, at the very least. She's just been put on a bus for now because of her overwhelming unpopularity.

I just think the ending of 2.55 was freakin terrible. Especially now that it turns out it didn't ammount to anything at all.

And people give me s[kupo]t for still being down on the ending to the Crystal Tower story. However you feel about the means used to get there, at least it can be agreed that "The Parting Glass" canonically happened and has had an ongoing effect. And not all the character development was terrible, either.

[Alleo]

I hope to god that if they decide to kill of another beloved character..that this doesn't happen because our own character acts "stupid". Thats probably still the reason why I cant get over a certain someones death while being able to be okay with the death of my other two favorites..

Oh and about the lore book. I do love the believe in the twelfth and the 7 heavens/hells way more than the theory about the lifestream. I am just not a fan of rebirth and like the thought about a nice afterlife way more. But thats just me. (I found this piece of information in the book quite interesting even though a lot of the lore reminds me of our own lore )

[Balipu]

I hope to god that if they decide to kill of another beloved character..that this doesn't happen because our own character acts "stupid". Thats probably still the reason why I cant get over a certain someones death while being able to be okay with the death of my other two favorites..

Oh and about the lore book. I do love the believe in the twelfth and the 7 heavens/hells way more than the theory about the lifestream. I am just not a fan of rebirth and like the thought about a nice afterlife way more. But thats just me. (I found this piece of information in the book quite interesting even though a lot of the lore reminds me of our own lore )

It is a fantasy based on reality.

[FJerome]

I think we're going a little off-topic here, maybe move the discussion about how they should do the 4.0 story to its own thread?

Is there anything on the Thorne Dynasty?

(From the Time-Line)

ca. 1181 - Ul'dahn thaumaturges develop the Trader's Spurn, an alchemical concoction with the power to reanimate the dead. With this devastating weapon, they lay waste to Sil'dih.

ca. 1190 - After their triumph over Sil'dih, emissaries from a thriving Ul'dah board Lominsan-built ships and set sail for the Near East to establish trade.
- With the expansion of maritime trade, the number of Ul'dahn merchants taking the land-based eastern routes begins to decline, and Ala Mhigo struggles to sustain itself on the meager tolls.

ca. 1224 - Sasagan III is imprisoned and ousted as ruler of Ul'dah in a political coup. Baldric Thorne is crowned sultan, marking the beginning of the Thorne dynasty.

ca. 1267 - Baldric Thorne's only daughter Edvya disappears from the palace. Fearing the worst, the sultan orders a city-wide search for the princess. The Sultansworn eventually discover Edvya with the assistance of a young girl of low birth. The incident would later be remembered as the national holiday, "Little Lady's Day".

ca. 1270 - Ul'dah relocates its capital atop of the ruins of fallen Sil'dih.

ca. 1272 - The enslaved hecatoncheire giants of Copperbell Mines revolt against their masters when the enchantments on their helms wear off, and the miners force a cave-in of the lowest depths to seal the giants within. The mine is shuttered under the pretense that its veins have run barren.

ca. 1353 - Waves of undead pour forth from the Sil'dihn waterways beneath the city.
- Responding to a series of zombie attacks across Thanalan, the sultanate approaches its theretofore enemy, the Amalj'aa, with a proposal to join forces against the common undead foe. The Amalj'aa - eager to cleanse their sacred land of the foul corpses - accept the offer, and Zahar'ak is established as a joint garrison.
- Ala Mhigan mercenaries are contracted by Ul'dah in the sultanate's efforts to purge the city of the undead droves.

ca. 1355 - With the aid of the Ala Mhigan mercenaries, the sultanate at long last is successful in ridding the city of the undead.
- The Royal House of Thorne abdicates the throne and restores sovereignty to the House of Ul, marking the ascension of the second Ul Dynasty.

(From the entry on Ul'dah)

A New Dynasty

Having brought an end to Ul'dah's troubles, Sasagan Ul Sisigan put the fell powder under close guard, and kept the truth of Sil'dih's end from the masses. The silence held for forty years, until Baldurf Thorne, a Hyuran of noble blood, learned the truth, and charged Sasagan for his crime. Startled, the aging ruler flew into a rage, and demanded the offender's head. However, no one lifted a finger, let alone a weapon, for Baldurf was known as a righteous man. Sasagan was imprisoned, and spent the rest of his days in the Marasaja Pit.

Those around Baldurf then asked him to serve as sultan. Though refusing at first, he eventually acquiesced on the condition that he would be a steward, ruling until the city-state was stable. The new sultan never made knowledge of the powder public, for fear that it would fall into the wrong hands. Instead, he established the Arbiters of Truth, a group devoted to preserving the the truth of Sil'dih's downfall for the future.

The Thorne Dynasty ruled for two hundred summers thereafter, and produced many ardent reformers. In 1270, one moved Ul'dah to almost directly above where her sister city-state had once stood. When undead rose from the ancient sprawling sewers of Sil'dih in 1353, another enlisted the aid of the Amalj'aa -- Ul'dah's fierce enemies. Given the beastmen's belief that Thanalan is sacred, they eagerly joined with the Ul'dahns to exterminate the impure presence. With this done, the Thorne heirs felt their sworn duty had come to an end, and returned rule to the Ul Dynasty.

The Syndicate

The Amalj'aa threat notwithstanding, Ul'dah gained control of Thanalan through the razing of neighboring Sil'dih. It was then that the city-state began to truly establish itself as a mercantile power, hiring sailors and purchasing Lominsan-wrought ships from as early as 1190. Soon, it had opened trade with Radz-at-Han and the rest of the Near East. Behind this was the guiding hand of the Thorne Dynasty, who had restored the Ul'dahn markets and overland trade routes after moving the city. Inheriting their vision, the second Ul Dynasty worked to better commerce, and under their rule the nation flourished.

It's interesting how the fictional author seems very favorable towards the Thorne Dynasty; it's a much more positive depiction of Baldric and the Arbiters than we got through Little Lady's Day and the Hildebrand questline. The writer even, rather sneakily, phrases things in a way to make it sound as if the Thornes were entirely behind Ul'Dah's rise as a trading super-power even though the sea trade began thirty-five years before under the Ul.

[Belhi]

Where was the original Ul'dah located? I can't imagine they literally moved the entire city, brick for brick.

[myahele]

Where was the original Ul'dah located? I can't imagine they literally moved the entire city, brick for brick.

I never thought about this until now, but you're right. Where was the original Ul'dah located? We see ruins of Sild'hih, Belah'dia and even Allagan (or older) ruins in Sagolli, yet no mentions of where Ul'dah was originally located.

Although, it would not surprise me at all if the Ul'dahns demolished their building and used the stone to built up the new Ul'dahan (to save money) and whatever remained of original Ul'dah swallowed up by the sands after 400 years of neglect.