RIP Minion Collectors :(

[Sindele]

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

[Frowny]

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

That's not a bad compromise honestly. They get their exclusive thingy, can show off then it is let loose so others can get it while they chase after the next one.

[Aviars]

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

hmmm, someone just painting a bad picture not based in reality? Wow, seems like someone else is being disingenuous here.

Let's paint the real picture here. People are anti-achievement. They don't want to feel that someone else is better. This was never about the the time making this reward exclusive. There have been many people expressing that THEY WERE FINE WITH PAYING MONEY for time exclusive items like collectors edition minions.

TBH I don't see how people aren't calling for achievements being erased from the game, because there are some achievements that are impossible for some to achieve and in the same way you can show off you achievements points and number of minions you got they won't be able to 'complete' their point 'collection.'

That's not a bad compromise honestly. They get their exclusive thingy, can show off then it is let loose so others can get it while they chase after the next one.

And then you realize why put in actual effort when you can just wait and get it for free. c;

[Frowny]

And then you realize why put in actual effort when you can just wait and get it for free. c;

Effort? As mentioned, and a horrible system, people can just sit in their ranking with no decay or incentive once they pitch their tent; that simple quirk kind of negates the prestige aspect in my opinion. It is also the same few names every season in the top spots, which leads me to believe it has stagnated. Feast helped PvP a bit, but the population is possibly on par with the raiding population: verrrrrry small.

You still get your achievement people can't get (and maybe a title? Not sure what the rewards are off-hand) and the minion way before anyone else does.

[Aviars]

Effort? As mentioned, and a horrible system, people can just sit in their ranking. It is also the same few names every season in the top spots. Feast helped PvP a bit, but the population is possibly on par with the raiding population: verrrrrry small.

And then you realize you can play and push those people out. But you don't so you would rather use that as a scapegoat as an excuse. Again there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from playing during the time when feast is active. Feast only truly dies after a major patch and then there is around 5 weeks of down time VERSUS THREE MONTHS OF ACTIVITY. You got no excuse especially when you don't put any effort into it in the first place.

Also complaining about the same people being in the top? Is that supposed to mean something? I don't even.

And you do realize people play for their spot right? That's called effort, didn't know if you knew that.

[Frowny]

And then you realize you can play and push those people out. But you don't so you would rather use that as a scapegoat as an excuse. Again there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from playing during the time when feast is active. Feast only truly dies after a major patch and then there is around 5 weeks of down time VERSUS THREE MONTHS OF ACTIVITY. You got no excuse especially when you don't put any effort into it in the first place.

Also complaining about the same people being in the top? Is that supposed to mean something? I don't even.

It shows possible stagnation, when put together with people mentioning the wicked long queues.

[Aviars]

It shows possible stagnation, when put together with people mentioning the wicked long queues.

Or maybe those people are just good. Shocking.

At any rate I'd love to see you all try and play, when Feast is still plenty active for at least another couple months before the next patch. But I won't hold my breath when all of you try to tear down any kind of mode that rewards skill. That is obviously much easier to do than measure yourself against others.

[Frowny]

Or maybe those people are just good. Shocking.

Good AND lack of people to overthrow them, indicating a population issue (you cannot tell me they're SO good no one could possibly compete with them). If there was a bigger population the top spots would be contested more regularly. Again, if you can camp a rank (ignoring how that is one heck of a design flaw) that's indicative of a problem.

This post pretty much summarized the current problem of PvP:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3932289

[Sindele]

hmmm, someone just painting a bad picture not based in reality? Wow, seems like someone else is being disingenuous here.

Let's paint the real picture here. People are anti-achievement. They don't want to feel that someone else is better. This was never about the the time making this reward exclusive. There have been many people expressing that THEY WERE FINE WITH PAYING MONEY for time exclusive items like collectors edition minions.

TBH I don't see how people aren't calling for achievements being erased from the game, because there are some achievements that are impossible for some to achieve and in the same way you can show off you achievements points and number of minions you got they won't be able to 'complete' their point 'collection.'

I see you haven't done anything to disclaim my point, instead running back to the refuge of claiming that everyone just wants everything easy.

What gets me the most here is that it's not merely enough to have *done* it and to be able to prove it and to have an item that proves it, there's an above-and-beyond desire - visible in this very thread, from these very reactions - that it MUST be more exclusive and visible than ANY other sort of limited achievement in the game because WE EARNED IT, as if nobody else has ever earned anything as much as top 10 PVPers have, and that anyone who finds that farcical or wants that to come with an eventual time limit on its exclusivity as a compromise is, what, entitled/lazy/bad/wrong/choose your own of any of the various not-particularly-compelling-or-factual reasons here. Pfft.

But hey, while I'm in the business of thinking about productive ways to bridge the gap: what if the minions had been made tradeable? How many of them would have been sold in the end, I wonder? I'd bet at least 70%.

Hell, what if it was instead a reward for hitting top whatever ever - probably further down than 10 unless something like decay comes into play, for previously mentioned reasons - as opposed to just the end of the season? The prestige title still exists, a prestige item still exists, but it would be something that proves that you at least tried, as well as something to strive for that keeps people queueing and doesn't expire with time. Isn't that exactly the sort of thing you claim to want?

[Belhi]

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

The fundamental difference is PvP is by its nature competitive. The amount of people really competitive about PvE is rather small. Competitive PvP, Prestige is the primary option for rewarding players, particularly when gear is basically normalised so you cant really grow more powerful like in PvE.

Prestige can age very well, particularly when you have a season set up like SE has done. SE is actively trying to encourage competitive PvP. Saying your a Season one winner holds value. When you see someone walking around in that set you know they were the top of that season. If everyone had that set that achievement loses value.

To be honest, it sounds like the bigger issue is how SE handles ranking. If people can sit out a month of PvP in a competitive season and still win that's an issue. Champions need to defend that spot even if coming in early allows them to get a head start on latecomers.