People not rolling in duties - can we do something about it?

[Andres_Lonegrief]

This, the roll timer is fine honestly. Just alt-tab or go do something else for now. It's only a few minutes. I've had it happen to me more than a few times, its annoying yes but I don't let it bother me that much.

The only time its really /abused/ is when people don't roll so they can't get kicked while doing nothing to contribute to the party ( most common in 24-mans )

I don't expect the timer to be lowered (even if it could be a solution), however I don't agree with you. I can understand if for whatever reason somebody had to leave before rolling: it can happen.

However, here I'm talking about people abusing of the timer so they can have more chances of dropping what they need. It's just unfair. Finding a work-around won't teach anything to these guys, they will just feel allowed to continue and might even get what they need (in a totally unfair way). If I need to repeat the same fight 5 times before I get my drop and each single time somebody is not looting immediately on purpose, then I would be wasting 20+minutes of game. In the end, it gets frustrating.

It's a game, we all agree on this. Then again, during a football match if the team with the ball doesn't kick off, then they will eventually lose the ball. So why should these players be unpunished?

[Neophyte]

It's a game, we all agree on this. Then again, during a football match if the team with the ball doesn't kick off, then they will eventually lose the ball. So why should these players be unpunished?

Yes, and for this situation there are time frames. As there are for loot rolls. Those are balanced between "People who willingly wait with their rolls" and "People who unwillingly wait with their rolls" (Cutscenes, DCs, quick Aryala to check stats again, discussion about loot [more likely in fixed groups]). Hurt the one group, hurt the other.

[Lan_Mantear]

However, here I'm talking about people abusing of the timer so they can have more chances of dropping what they need. It's just unfair. Finding a work-around won't teach anything to these guys, they will just feel allowed to continue and might even get what they need (in a totally unfair way).

I don't understand why this is unfair. Impolite? That's debatable. When you can do it as well, then it's not unfair. It is human nature to try to game the system. It's a trait that allows us to think outside of the box, and can often lead to innovative ideas or highlight flaws within a system. Don't get your panties in a bunch when it works against you. You have the same ability, fight back!

Yes, it can be frustrating, but do you know what is even more frustrating? Doing something 100x times and still not getting your drop. When you could have been a little bit smarter and gotten your drop by gambling on other people's impatience.

[Andres_Lonegrief]

You have the same ability, fight back!

Yes, it can be frustrating, but do you know what is even more frustrating? Doing something 100x times and still not getting your drop. When you could have been a little bit smarter and gotten your drop by gambling on other people's impatience.

Sorry but the "fight back" approach isn't going to work. It will just increase the number of people doing this. We shouldn't use frustration to justify our gambling and cheating. You are right when you say that doing something 100x times for a single loot is frustrating, but for every single person receiving what he wants there are plenty that will have to repeat the same thing again.

In the end, it's the game team that should take care of the community and "grow / educate" it, so what we should do is ask them to look into this and ease the process in order that people won't feel pushed towards gambling.


Doing justice by yourself replicating bad behaviour isn't going to make anything better.

[Lan_Mantear]

Doing justice by yourself replicating bad behaviour isn't going to make anything better.

I don't see this situation to be as severe as you propose it to be.

The timer is there by design of the developers. It is well within my rights as a player to wait until the very last second to cast my lot so that I can get a higher chance of receving my loot. That is not cheating, and it shouldn't be considered as grieving other players.

The real issue here is the amount of time people have to wait. Like some people have suggested, SE just needs to lower loot timer on 8 man raids.

[Andres_Lonegrief]

I don't see this situation to be as severe as you propose it to be.

The timer is there by design of the developers. It is well within my rights as a player to wait until the very last second to cast my lot so that I can get a higher chance of receving my loot. That is not cheating, and it shouldn't be considered as grieving other players.

The real issue here is the amount of time people have to wait. Like some people have suggested, SE just needs to lower loot timer on 8 man raids.

If something IRL prevents you from rolling, yes: that's why they set it like this. But if you are waiting on purpose then to me it's another story. In the meantime, for example:
1) People might lose gathering nodes (they'll come back, but they might have something else to do);
2) The raid group of somebody could get tired of waiting;
3) Your play-time might be almost finished (so you won't have time to try again, check retainers or do whatever you were planning to do);

It does affect other players, so I don't think it should something accepted or considered ok.. It isn't even a matter of people checking the stats on aryala as they are doing it even now in weeping city for the minions ...

[Lan_Mantear]

If something IRL prevents you from rolling, yes: that's why they set it like this. But if you are waiting on purpose then to me it's another story. In the meantime, for example:
1) People might lose gathering nodes (they'll come back, but they might have something else to do);
2) The raid group of somebody could get tired of waiting;
3) Your play-time might be almost finished (so you won't have time to try again, check retainers or do whatever you were planning to do);

It does affect other players, so I don't think it should something accepted or considered ok.. It isn't even a matter of people checking the stats on aryala as they are doing it even now in weeping city for the minions ...

Sorry to break it to you, but if 5 minutes adversely affects all of that for you. You probably didn't have time to run that duty to begin with. Considering, raids can potentially last 90 minutes.

[Andres_Lonegrief]

Sorry to break it to you, but if 5 minutes adversely affects all of that for you. You probably didn't have time to run that duty to begin with. Considering, raids can potentially last 90 minutes.

I see, but I'm afraid breaking it like this is a bit too semplicistic and incorrect. A gathering node can disappear, so it's not that impossible.
As far as raid are concerned, if I decide to do a quick A10 normal 30minutes before my raiding time I don't see why I should avoid it just because people might not roll? People do this even on HM primal (forcing the rest of the party to stay there until the end if they want the weapon for glamour or desynthesis or company credits). You see how much this trend is spread?

Anyway, I do see your point: you want to exploit the loot timer so you'll have more chance to obtain the loot you are after and you do this because of reasons (and a few of them are understandable and shared by all of us). You have a necessity and you have found a way to satisfy it, still this doesn't mean that your exploit is right or justified.

Furthermore, why should your frustration at the looting system be more acceptable than my frustration at wasting time doing nothing in an instance? Back in 2.X, people complained because the loot system and distribution in 24men raid was bad (people left if they didn't drop what they needed, the RNG was bad and limited because we had only 4 loot instead of 8 etc). Then in HW SE increased the drops to 8 per raid, the RNG is still bad but it's still a small improvement. I guess they need to think of something even for the 8men normal raid like Alexander or whatever will come in Bloodstorm.

[Neophyte]

If something IRL prevents you from rolling, yes: that's why they set it like this. But if you are waiting on purpose then to me it's another story. In the meantime, for example:
1) People might lose gathering nodes (they'll come back, but they might have something else to do);
2) The raid group of somebody could get tired of waiting;
3) Your play-time might be almost finished (so you won't have time to try again, check retainers or do whatever you were planning to do);

It does affect other players, so I don't think it should something accepted or considered ok.. It isn't even a matter of people checking the stats on aryala as they are doing it even now in weeping city for the minions ...

And how do you tell if someone is afk because he needs to or if he's afk because he wants to? You can't anyway, so why bother?

Those 3 reasons could be used to reduce every trial duration to 15 minutes, too.
I mean, maybe there are people who don't have the time for wipes and need to go raiding in 10 mins, so they can't take the penalty or they have to go to bed soon and still have to do ex roulette to cap for the week, but are stucked with a wiping group in A11.

Tough luck. Don't queue for Alex if you don't have enough time to kill it and maybe wait another 3 mins.

If it helps, just imagine theres someone taking a dumb after each kill.

[Andres_Lonegrief]

And how do you tell if someone is afk because he needs to or if he's afk because he wants to?

there have been times where the guy who didn't roll was running around, so it was quite clear. Other were spamming emotes or chatting. Also, if it was something from real life it wouldn't happen so often.