I'll pay anything for this Chocobo Barding

[Lambdafish]

snip

Congrats, you found out that the game is successful, and is making lots of money. The cash shop isn't actually affecting anything, only generating part of the profit that you listed (how much of it, we don't know). The knock on effect is SE likes XIV even more, and wants to invest more into it (which was my point), which is why your point about us getting nothing good from the cash shop is wrong.

Also "The EU datacentre wasn't made possible by the additional funds, it was always possible." is wrong. We didn't get an EU datacenter initially because they did not have the resources to implement it. The devs explained what the funds go towards in the opening keynotes of EUfanfest 2014, and unless the devs are flat out lying then this means that the cash shop has indeed helped bring us more content and infrastructure improvements. (Source https://youtu.be/nQ4ywkIbSFk?t=691)

Anyway, I don't want this to turn into a pro/con mogstation debate because I'm against the cash shop too, I'm just saying that there are pros to its existence that should not be ignored.

[Jandor]

Congrats, you found out that the game is successful, and is making lots of money. The cash shop isn't actually affecting anything, only generating part of the profit that you listed (how much of it, we don't know). The knock on effect is SE likes XIV even more, and wants to invest more into it (which was my point), which is why your point about us getting nothing good from the cash shop is wrong.

I don't care what exact percentage of the profit is generated by the cash shop, it's irrelevant. Most of those links are from before it was implemented. It was raking in enough cash to turn around the fortunes of the company before it was implemented.

& cash shops always affect things. Sleipnir would be a drop from Odin if the cash shop didn't exist, I am 100% confident of that.

Also "The EU datacentre wasn't made possible by the additional funds, it was always possible." is wrong. We didn't get an EU datacenter initially because they did not have the resources to implement it. The devs explained what the funds go towards in the opening keynotes of EUfanfest 2014, and unless the devs are flat out lying then this means that the cash shop has indeed helped bring us more content and infrastructure improvements. (Source https://youtu.be/nQ4ywkIbSFk?t=691)

They're not flat out lying, but they're twisting the truth a bit. They say the profits can be put back into items, vanity, housing, etc. which is true except the game was hugely profitable before optional items, those profits could have been used for the exact same things. Absolutely no reason why that money couldn't have been put back into the game other than that every penny invested back in the game is a penny those in charge don't get to have right now.

E: I don't want to accuse the dev team of being assholes btw, but if the people counting the money said "say *this* or we'll have to think about getting someone who will" to me...

[Alberel]

Congrats, you found out that the game is successful, and is making lots of money. The cash shop isn't actually affecting anything, only generating part of the profit that you listed (how much of it, we don't know). The knock on effect is SE likes XIV even more, and wants to invest more into it (which was my point), which is why your point about us getting nothing good from the cash shop is wrong.

Also "The EU datacentre wasn't made possible by the additional funds, it was always possible." is wrong. We didn't get an EU datacenter initially because they did not have the resources to implement it. The devs explained what the funds go towards in the opening keynotes of EUfanfest 2014, and unless the devs are flat out lying then this means that the cash shop has indeed helped bring us more content and infrastructure improvements. (Source https://youtu.be/nQ4ywkIbSFk?t=691)

Anyway, I don't want this to turn into a pro/con mogstation debate because I'm against the cash shop too, I'm just saying that there are pros to its existence that should not be ignored.

I'd like to make a distinction between the actual company 'SquareEnix' and Yoshi's team that is developing FFXIV.

Yoshi's team did not have the resources to give us an EU datacentre, but SE, the company, most certainly did. The cash shop did not directly fund the EU datacentre because all money the game makes does not go to Yoshi's team; it goes to the company as a whole. What actually happened was the execs forced Yoshi to implement a cash shop before they would give his team extra funding. In other words, Yoshi wasn't lying, but it was still ultimately just the greed from the money men at SE that required the cash shop in exchange for the EU datacentre.

[Zigabar]

What actually happened was the execs forced Yoshi to implement a cash shop before they would give his team extra funding. In other words, Yoshi wasn't lying, but it was still ultimately just the greed from the money men at SE that required the cash shop in exchange for the EU datacentre.

Source?

On topic, I'd like the barding, but I advocate to have it put directly into the game first.

[Alberel]

Source?

On topic, I'd like the barding, but I advocate to have it put directly into the game first.

Source: How big businesses operate. That's just how it works. Individual teams within a business do not operate in financial isolation from the wider business. Whenever Yoshi says his team does not have the money to do something it actually means the execs won't give him the money to do it.

[Jandor]

Source: How big businesses operate. That's just how it works. Individual teams within a business do not operate in financial isolation from the wider business. Whenever Yoshi says his team does not have the money to do something it actually means the execs won't give him the money to do it.

Nah mate, not good enough. We're going to need copies of the minutes from financial meetings. /s

[Zigabar]

Nah mate, not good enough. We're going to need copies of the minutes from financial meetings. /s

Actually, yeah, that would be a source. Making bold assumptions, and claiming it as fact, based on some business knowledge does not make it a source.

[Lambdafish]

I'd like to make a distinction between the actual company 'SquareEnix' and Yoshi's team that is developing FFXIV.

To everyone screaming source, Alberel is right, this is how big publishers work (source: 4 years of study on games industry practice, plus background reading). The problem is that we can't look at SE the publisher and say "OMG so greedy" because they are so far in the background that our forum voices don't reach, also... is it a surprise to anyone these days that publishers care more about the cash flow than the quality of the product? But anyway... What happens whenever people whine about the cash shop is that yoshi Ps team gets the brunt of the backlash, when they are in fact the ones trying to make good of it.

I'll clarify my original points to expand on this distinction:

- The budget given to yoshi Ps team was not enough to implement the EU datacenter (because evidently the accountants at SE HQ said that the budget given was viable enough to create the product and justify a return, whether or not it allowed everything within the games scope, which is fair enough, that's how business works)
- The cash shop is implemented because SE does that (see deus ex: mankind evolved), again, nothing that us tiny xiv forum dwellers can do about that.
- Yoshi P assures the community that the funds will go back into the game, which at the time was a necessary move for his team to meet the scope that they wanted.

If you look at it this way, the cash shop is a resource that Yoshi Ps team use to allow them to create the game that they truly want to deliver to us. By berating that here undermines the lengths that they go to give us the best experience that they are allowed to, and apparently have done with the EU datacenter and server improvements.

Having said all that, this becomes a less viable positive with the increased budget in 4.0, but we have no idea what will happen in the future, it's just something to think about moving forward.


Edit - I'll say it again just in case: despite what I say above, I am wholly against the cash shop.