We Want SAM... <make it happen>

[Katana190]

I can see your point. But a Warhammer job would be epic though.

A War-hammer tank would be so amazing! I can see it happening when we go to Garlemald though, with the addition of the Gunsword job as well. Idk \o/

On topic though, I'm still really holding out for SAM to use a set of Daishō and not Great Katana... Funnily enough, in the Lorebook it states that the DRK Law Greatsword is in fact a Great Katana! So I think a Daishō is more believable then before, especially after seeing Zenos using multiple katana's in his artwork, and the best guess is he will use recycled Samurai skills.

Here is part of the Quote from the Lorebook!
"Kumokirimaru
This Great Katana was forged by a Doman artisan at the behest of Rowena's House of Splendors."

Now I know the Law gear was Doman styled, and DRK's using Great swords, it would obviously be a Great Katana. But do we really want Great Katana's? Idm either way as long as SAM is introduced but I'm really holding out for a set of Daishō!

[Lyshell]

I'm so salty about Samurai, from ffxi, that I always wish it never comes out. But people seem to want it. Ugh, so it's likely to happen. And I do think it will come out with storm blood due to the style of one of our antagonist showed at fan fest. He looked very SAMesque so who knows.

[Leogun]

I'm so salty about Samurai, from ffxi, that I always wish it never comes out. But people seem to want it. Ugh, so it's likely to happen. And I do think it will come out with storm blood due to the style of one of our antagonist showed at fan fest. He looked very SAMesque so who knows.

Curious, what did you not like about Sam from 11? I rarely ever hear from Sam players that disliked the job. I was a monk main so I actually liked monk in that game but dislike it in this one (granted I don't have it leveled past 40 yet) primarily because it lacks the unique defensive measures from games of past, the counter.

[Lyshell]

Curious, what did you not like about Sam from 11? I rarely ever hear from Sam players that disliked the job. I was a monk main so I actually liked monk in that game but dislike it in this one (granted I don't have it leveled past 40 yet) primarily because it lacks the unique defensive measures from games of past, the counter.

I hate how it got the preferential treatment in XI. Every update would be a new buff or modification to boost SAM and other jobs like MNK (my job) lol would get nothing. Out of all the jobs SAM would get the most equipment, could wear heavy and light, and would get a variety of good weapons. It just pissed me off so SAM can stay dead! lol That's why I was salty. I hate SAM! lol But whatever it will probably be in storm blood :P

[Blood-Aki]

I hate how it got the preferential treatment in XI. Every update would be a new buff or modification to boost SAM and other jobs like MNK (my job) lol would get nothing. Out of all the jobs SAM would get the most equipment, could wear heavy and light, and would get a variety of good weapons. It just pissed me off so SAM can stay dead! lol That's why I was salty. I hate SAM! lol But whatever it will probably be in storm blood :P

Is that all? Have you seen how SMN started out there? Watered down WHM anyone? and don't get me started on how nin was "supposed" to be played, The job balance was out of control in that game in the early days.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Attacking from the front then? Time to get booty slammed by cleaves and additional frontal cone AoEs.

You assume they have to sit there and take cleaves, nor have a means to deal with them.

Remove cleaves to cater to SAM? Positioning for tanks getting nerfed to make gameplay more braindead?

No, why would they do that?

Be a DPS that is hated by healers next to BLM? Give it virtually no useful utility but high DPS for this higher risk gameplay? NIN+DRG meta prolonged?

Again, you're jumping to conclusions. Who says it has to have high DPS only? (Not that its bad for a DPS, nor was I suggesting what their support utility would be.)

Let's give our infamously horrible DF pugs a class that needs to dodge frequent untelegraphed cleaves when they already have trouble dodging telegraphed AoEs with huge orange markers.

Very VERY few attacks are like this, and of course, that doesnt mean there isnt a work around for that. I can go into detail at the bottom. Plus a players lack of skill doesnt mean we should never require them to do anything that requires effort.

Have skills that mitigate damage?

Skills to mitigate dmg, obviously, all DPS have something, and I'd be fine with having higher defense like DRG, with higher HP/mitigation effectiveness.

Lose some DPS skill slots and effectively turn it into... *gasp* a tank?

I dont see why they lose DPS skill slots. Nor do I see a problem with a DPS having near tank like playstyle/abilities, w/o the actual ability to hold hate.

But worse because a real tank doesn't need to hit the front to deal it's full damage?

What you said is like saying "A PLD is a WHM, but worse, because a real healer doesnt run out of MP with just 3 cure casts (Clemency) to heal?" Sometimes there is variation, and finding ways to use that variation brings new playstyles and less copy/paste classes. I love DEFENSIVE play styles. I find offensive playstyles boring. I find mitigation more interesting that an attack buff. So if you balance a DPS to mitigate dmg to keep itself at its best, then I'd love to play such a class. Maybe YOU wouldnt, and that is fine, not every class is meant to be the same.

Have no positionals? Release patch NIN?

Would never suggest that, If anything the idea is to not stand in front of the boss when you DONT have positionals (and using a buff to remove positionals occasionally. Though a penalty to attacking from behind would most likely remain)

inb4 SwordMage with melee range cast bar mechanics *shudder*

Who on earth would ever suggest this, w/o some sort of "stacks" to make spells intant cast, to encourage melee skills before spells?

I truly hope we aren't suggesting they become some kind of front positional DPS because... That is what Tanks are.

You're half right, but not quite.

I guess Cover would have some miniscule use here. A treat to the PLDs?

Honestly the most clever thing you've mentioned so far, as this might be a way to stack mitigation and make this class too broken, which is the only part I'd agree to rethink the design. (Nor have I already thought of a way ahead of time to deal with this.)

WHM: Stop getting cleaved!

Solution, Dodge more.

If you are the creator, there is ALWAYS a way to make unique builds work. Stop trying to suggest something couldnt ever possibly work, just because you cant think of how.

Yes because this is so much better...


I'd just love to be the healer for that, as the entire alliance's dps go down on the first cleave from the boss. That sure does sound fun!

That's not even touching problems like mechanics that target DPS with ground target attacks now getting placed on top of your tanks, requiring tanks to move bosses more often when a lot of fights require the tanks to keep the boss in a specific spot. And other incredibly numerous other problems that come with a DPS job designed to attack from the front, all for what? When you could just make that job a tank.

1,2,3 combo, 3rd combo, more dmg from the front +10 potency. you can deal w/o doing it. (Looking at Dark Arts as an example, where you have the ability to use the MP for more potency, but you dont always do it. Sometimes you need to space it out, and wait till you have the MP for it. In this case, the Mitigation for it.)
all 3, hit from behind effect: lose a stack of honor.
Honor: raise accuracy from the front and +1% DPS per stack (lets say 3 cap for now)
side ability: base dmg and gain 1 stack of honor.

In short, stay on the side of the enemy, move to the front for a single attack.
Mitigate it before you walk in front of them, such as an utsusemi like ability, move back.

Stronger mitigation, for times you plan to stay in front of them longer, to lower enmity, but raise mitgation.

Is it really that hard to imagine work arounds for these issues?
(I also intended more -enmity in the class, liek an "anti tank" Stance, to prevent them acting as OTs or something too broken. Along with weaker AoE on par with NIN or something. Which requires more support on their part, etc, so on, and so forth.)

[Zensho]

I hate how it got the preferential treatment in XI. Every update would be a new buff or modification to boost SAM and other jobs like MNK (my job) lol would get nothing. Out of all the jobs SAM would get the most equipment, could wear heavy and light, and would get a variety of good weapons. It just pissed me off so SAM can stay dead! lol That's why I was salty. I hate SAM! lol But whatever it will probably be in storm blood :P

heh, funny you put it that way because I was MNK main on XI too, and all I ever wanted was some JSE. But I had SAM leveled just cuz it could wear the same shit, but in dynamis, nobody had SAM, so by default they game me a full set of SAM AF2 armor even though I didn't want it, cuz I wanted MNK AF2 set more. I also tanked on SAM in the level 60's something the job was designed to do, but turned dps, and it's funny how NIN was designed dps, and ppl turned it into a tank, lol how broke was that shit? =P

[FallenWings]

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The issue is the clear break of balance when you attempt to make this design choice. What I listed in response is not only the general desires of the DPS sides and its reprecussions, but what the possible issues that may arise and how it could tilt the balance of the game for the worse.

If you make the positionals only a difference of 10, why even bother? The reward for executing it would be so abysmal, why even implement it. Just for the flavour of "Ooooh we can hit the front"? Pointless. The cost of properly executing an action needs to be of a sufficient reward to incentivize the effort. But the punishment of not executing it needs not be as steep as pre-buffed Heavy Thrust.

Yes, all DPS have something to mitigate the damage, but not TANK levels of damage in which you need the TANK level defensive CDs, especially for DPS levels of HP.

When you give a DPS class Tank levels of mitigation, you give it an edge in cutting edge progression where it can survive AoE's the others can not which is again, imbalance. (See DRG T13 or MNK Dragon Kick pre 3.0)

So if it has few and far between front positionals, and multiple ways to effectively null it, it really is just a positionless Melee with an unnecessary mechanic to juggle akin to BotD.

And if it doesn't even need to front positional, why suggest it? Negating front positioning essentially breaks the idea of it even being front positional.

(Protip: You cannot "live" without Dark Arts because of it's massive effect on all the skills it effects.)

Putting forward ideas of front positionals and it's niche is one thing, vaguely hinting at it without the proper context of balance is another.

[Blazinhart]

I just want one job: Dancer!!! And I want it as a Healer Role (never understood why people are so crazy about Samurais)

[Lyshell]

Is that all? Have you seen how SMN started out there? Watered down WHM anyone? and don't get me started on how nin was "supposed" to be played, The job balance was out of control in that game in the early days.

Oh no I was pissed about SMN, because I played SMN as well, that was only related to why I hated SAM in FFXI, there were so many reasons I was pissed they would buff all other jobs and not do anything for SMN or DNC or any of the other unique jobs they would introduce and just not buff them to make them useable. But whatever this about SAM I'll save my ffxi angry stories for whatever thread that would be lol. For now I'd take SAM but I swear if they do the same thing they did to it FFXI I would protest and quit! lol