Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[Kerrigen]

I'm finding that a lot of the polarization of opinions around Cleric exists because you have to commit to basically not being able to heal at all while it's up, and it's very possible to mess it up. Then you obviously have your "honest healers" who won't ever touch a damage spell, but I have accepted a long time ago that not everyone wants to play optimally, and I don't have to play with these players either.

I'm once again left wondering where would these discussions be if we lived in a world where Cleric didn't exist and our damage would simply scale off MND instead.

Maybe FF14 should take the whole "healers are DPS with healing spells" one step further In that regard, if only for fluidity's sake.

[Normalizer]

I'm once again left wondering where would these discussions be if we lived in a world where Cleric didn't exist and our damage would simply scale off MND instead.

We will have those threads "Should Aero/Stone/Broil/...[include any dps spell here] be disabled in party instances?" instead. The advanced healers who only want to heal will screaming that those skills force them to contribute to dps, while they play healer for healing ONLYYYYY!!!!!!

[Seoulstar]

As much as I love it. I wouldn't mind it. The ability appears to cause more harm than good. I'm looking you people who are harassing the healers that don't want to dps.

[Genaxx]

If they removed cleric stance then as a tank I will just stop dpsing and spam flash.

If healers dont have to dps, tanks dont. Hell even dps dont have to give it their best either and should just use one button.

[Pixelmancer]

I don't see the need. It's an attitude problem, not a mechanics problem. It doesn't need a mechanics solution. I help out with DPS when I can, but there are times when the group is taking too much damage and people will die before I can go back to healing, and there are times when I just need to save my MP. If the party can't handle reality don't play with those people anymore.

Yes you can still dps, but just not as much.

Maybe at low levels, but at 60 no you can't. For all intents and purposes my damage is nonexistent outside cleric stance. Turning cleric off makes normal mobs literally take as long as a FATE boss to kill.

If they removed cleric stance then as a tank I will just stop dpsing and spam flash.

If healers dont have to dps, tanks dont. Hell even dps dont have to give it their best either and should just use one button.

Not even close to the same thing. You don't have to turn off 95% of your HP and armor to do damage. I do have to turn off 95% of my healing to DPS.

As much as I love it. I wouldn't mind it. The ability appears to cause more harm than good. I'm looking you people who are harassing the healers that don't want to dps.

I've literally never once been harassed for not doing DPS. People need to get new friends if that happens to them.

If they make party instances like raids where majority of time spent is healing, then I'll say "errr ok".

But if all content is how it is now, hell no.

If the majority of the time isn't spent healing the healer should encourage the tank to pull more. The party isn't going as fast as it could.

[Alisa180]

If they removed cleric stance then as a tank I will just stop dpsing and spam flash.

If healers dont have to dps, tanks dont. Hell even dps dont have to give it their best either and should just use one button.

I mentioned this in another thread, but it is impossible to hold threat just using Flash, especially if you have even two-thirds competant DPS. You quickly go OOM, and if you subsequently keep refusing to use combos to either restore MP, or re-establish threat, the enemies will kill your other party members and cause a wipe. Hence, that is not a good comparison.

[Cynfael]

Those saying that low healing requirement = tank needs to pull more need to keep a couple of things in mind:

1. Sometimes it is impossible to pull more because of gates or because you are in a boss encounter.

2. A party with poor AoE capability doesn't benefit from massive pulls. If the tank's HP is plummeting and the healer can't get a moment to help AoE while the DPS are struggling to kill the mobs, that's a bad pull.

[DaulBan]

As much as I love it. I wouldn't mind it. The ability appears to cause more harm than good. I'm looking you people who are harassing the healers that don't want to dps.

I'm 100% certain there are more people who complain about healers not doing dps than people who complain about healers doing dps.

[SargentToughie]

So I've been reading through this thread, and even though I only heal through content fairly casually (Mostly expert, PotD and stuff), Cleric Stance has become a pivotal part of how I have anything at all to do for like... 80% of a typical EXR, just because there's not enough outgoing damage for healing to be interesting. If Cleric Stance got removed, I'm pretty sure I'd just drop healing altogether out of sheer boredom with the role, unless SE were to substantially increase the difficulty of heal checks to compensate.

But what's more, I'm seeing this really bizarre argument coming out of the removal camp. Some people in this thread are arguing that Cleric Stance is a harassment tool, and should be removed because some people use it to attack others. That's pretty much the equivalent of saying: "Hey I like having 5 fingers but some people use the middle one to attack others, so we should all just dice off our middle fingers in order to make everyone happy."

Assholes will be assholes, the existence of a button isn't going to change the kind of person they are, or the kind of attacks they make. Assholes will find a new excuse to harass you even if Cleric Stance is disabled. The best way to combat them is to ignore them, report them, or just kick them from the instance.

[DeadRiser]

If the majority of the time isn't spent healing the healer should encourage the tank to pull more. The party isn't going as fast as it could.

Let's not forget that SE has put blocks every few mobs so big pulls aren't common anymore.

Why can't SE just create interesting mobs or dungeon spots? Pulling more things isn't necessarily fun.