Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Niwashi]

1-30 teaches you very little, other then "here is 2-3 skills, spam them none stop".

It's 17 skills (from a possible 21-24 since there's some choice in the cross-class ones), and if you think you can get away with spamming just 2-3 of them, that's what I was talking about when I mentioned players having no clue what they're doing. If people leveled up normally, they'd gain those skills one by one, and get a chance to learn how each works.

[Blood-Aki]

but it takes like zero effort to get to thirty u can reach level 30 in two days ha

That is exactly the point of why we don't need it, it takes no effort and you learn close to nothing, if you're a competent player. It's just mostly a waste of time, but this is a progression game, we do have to deal with it when starting fresh jobs.

It's 17 skills (from a possible 21-24 since there's some choice in the cross-class ones), and if you think you can get away with spamming just 2-3 of them

We are playing the same game, right? i challenge you to play as a CNJ from 1 to 30, and let me know what skills/spells you use the most. Let me save you some time, Stone 1, for dps, cure 1 for healing. and the occasional fluid aura if you're tank does not know how to tank.

DPS? well i'm sure a PUG has a large list of skills that isn't bootshine, snap punch, touch of death, true strike, (all of which do not change untill past level 30) in fact i my self learned nothing new from any healer or DPS job untill well past 30, were your rotations actually took root, None of which are even close to complete below 30. so 17 skills means naught when you're 95% of the time only using 2-3 (4) of them.

that's what I was talking about when I mentioned players having no clue what they're doing. If people leveled up normally, they'd gain those skills one by one, and get a chance to learn how each works.

All i can give you is leveling 1-30 is an idiot check, to see if you can memorize basic skills, like how to damage and how to heal, it will make no difference at level 30 from 1, trust me. unless you have a learning issue, you can easily pick up any job starting at 30. in a matter of minutes. after that point, it's just a matter of muscle memory and keeping your rotations fluid with the fights. even brayflox, which imo was the first "checker" dungeon was at 34. (or 32? i have not checked in a while)

[Frowny]

That is exactly the point of why we don't need it, it takes no effort and you learn close to nothing, if you're a competent player.

Sorry, I've seen some even at 60 where... they aren't competent and need the extra time. For crying out loud, I still see bards almost NEVER playing songs... competence is not a good argument.

FF14 is story based so it makes sense to require playing through the story. The MMO part comes in asking for help. IE a DPS will ask in fc chat for help. We'll usually give them a tank for insta-queue.

[KitingGenbu]

FF14 is story based so it makes sense to require playing through the story. The MMO part comes in asking for help. IE a DPS will ask in fc chat for help. We'll usually give them a tank for insta-queue.

That's like saying WoW isn't a heavily story based game given how much lore is behind it. Final fantasy isn't an exception to the rule just because Final fantasy titles in general are known to be story focused. The flaw in the current story is that it has no 'end' which means it can't really be treated like how even XI was since each expansion was separate from the others. That doesn't mean that certain things can't be skipped due to having certain levels. As far as the story being good or not, that's always going to be subjective and should be treated as optional if other criteria are met in order to skip. Every mmorpg has this option except FFXIV and that's not something to be proud of when you're in a competitive market.

[Reynhart]

We are playing the same game, right? i challenge you to play as a CNJ from 1 to 30, and let me know what skills/spells you use the most. Let me save you some time, Stone 1, for dps, cure 1 for healing. and the occasional fluid aura if you're tank does not know how to tank.

So you're never raising someone, you don't use Aero to let damage tick while you heal, nor Cleric Stance, nor Esuna, nor Protect, nor Medica ?

That's like saying WoW isn't a heavily story based game given how much lore is behind it.

Lore is very different from story. WoW has a lot of background, sure, but (in its early days, at least) basially no real story.

Every mmorpg has this option except FFXIV and that's not something to be proud of when you're in a competitive market.

On a market where every MMO follows the same rules, doing things differently is exactly something to be proud of, especially if you're successful.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So you're never raising someone, you don't use Aero to let damage tick while you heal, nor Cleric Stance, nor Esuna, nor Protect, nor Medica ?

Cleric Stance is click and forget, Protect you should only use once at the very beginning of the dungeon, Esuna rarely ever has any use and I scarcely need to use Cure, let alone Medica. Likewise, Aero is okay, but things usually die way too fast for it to matter. You will be using Stone I and Cure almost exclusively throughout Conjurer. Lancer is even worse, wherein you literally do nothing but hit Heavy Thrust then spam Impulse Drive until it drops. If you bothered to level Pugilist, you'll have Internal Release however that hardly breaks up the monotony. Thaumaturge mostly boils down to Fire/Blizzard and Transposing between them. Pugilist probably offers the greatest variety because you actually unlock a full combo early, have a couple buffs and need to consider positionals. Otherwise, no, I didn't learn anything playing the classes I couldn't have easily picked up with less than an hour of play. There is a reason the devs have not only acknowledged their dissatisfaction with classes but are basically phasing them out entirely. Come 4.0 (or perhaps sooner), you won't even need to level them for cross skills.

On a market where every MMO follows the same rules, doing things differently is exactly something to be proud of, especially if you're successful.

Not if you're being different for purely the sake of it. Gating content behind the story isn't some ground breaking accomplishment. It's just forcing people to spam numpad 0/mouse click if they aren't interested in it.

[Avalon1101]

Cleric Stance is click and forget, Protect you should only use once at the very beginning of the dungeon, Esuna rarely ever has any use and I scarcely need to use Cure, let alone Medica.

This is rare to see.
In PvE stance and esuna are being used so frequently; and in Pvp...
Well base on what you say I bet you never healed in feast

[Reynhart]

Cleric Stance is click and forget, Protect you should only use once at the very beginning of the dungeon, Esuna rarely ever has any use and I scarcely need to use Cure, let alone Medica. Likewise, Aero is okay, but things usually die way too fast for it to matter.

Considering it's better to frequently switch in and out of Cleric Stance, I'd hardly call it a "Click and forget". Having recently came back to level WHM, I also wouldn't say Esuna rarely has any use. Is it vital ? No. But you're still supposed to learn how to rely on it before it becomes necessary. That's the point of a learning curve. It's the same for Medica, as it should teach you to judge how to spend your MP efficiently before forcing you to starve when done wrong.

Not if you're being different for purely the sake of it. Gating content behind the story isn't some ground breaking accomplishment. It's just forcing people to spam numpad 0/mouse click if they aren't interested in it.

It's not "for the sake of it" it you have an audience that specifically look for that kind of concept. I've tried several MMOs and none managed to hook me, precisely because they didn't have that feeling a being united in a grand story.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is rare to see.
In PvE stance and esuna are being used so frequently; and in Pvp...
Well base on what you say I bet you never healed in feast

What does Feast have to do with low level PvE? I said Cleric Stance is "click and forget" pre-30, which is what the subject is about. I didn't mean you'll never stance dance.

Considering it's better to frequently switch in and out of Cleric Stance, I'd hardly call it a "Click and forget". Having recently came back to level WHM, I also wouldn't say Esuna rarely has any use. Is it vital ? No. But you're still supposed to learn how to rely on it before it becomes necessary. That's the point of a learning curve. It's the same for Medica, as it should teach you to judge how to spend your MP efficiently before forcing you to starve when done wrong.

At later levels, yes. Pre-30, I barely bother stance dancing because the tank just isn't going to take much damage. Perhaps we heal differently, but I'll generally let the tank's HP fall low before I heal. In that time, most packs will have died and I don't even need to heal them. Now if they start pulling more, you'll have to dance, but newer tanks usually won't. You learn how Esuna works by reading its description. I know a lot of us don't hold much optimism for DF, but I'd like to think they can figure that out on their on.

Medica just isn't a thing. I leveled WHM on my alt almost to Praetorium and I honestly can't recall ever using Medica-- certainly not before Stone Vigil. Nonetheless, this isn't difficult to pick up just by reading.

It's not "for the sake of it" it you have an audience that specifically look for that kind of concept. I've tried several MMOs and none managed to hook me, precisely because they didn't have that feeling a being united in a grand story.

And that audience isn't going to be effected. I'm similar, actually. I basically quit the MMO genre for years because the stories bored me. FFXIV's made things interesting and I love it for that. But, if someone else only wants to play for raids. I, frankly, couldn't care less. They'll skip the story regardless. Might as well let Square make money off them.

[Reynhart]

At later levels, yes. Pre-30, I barely bother stance dancing because the tank just isn't going to take much damage. Perhaps we heal differently, but I'll generally let the tank's HP fall low before I heal.

I usually have the tank on focus and turn off Cleric stance around the 50% mark...which can happen fast depending on stuff and size of packs...

In that time, most packs will have died and I don't even need to heal them. Now if they start pulling more, you'll have to dance, but newer tanks usually won't.

You don't run only on newer tanks at low level. And even if you do, pulling only one or two mobs at once is just not using this level range to learn properly.

You learn how Esuna works by reading its description. I know a lot of us don't hold much optimism for DF, but I'd like to think they can figure that out on their on.

Learning how and when to use a skill by reading the toolkit ? If only that was a real thing...

Medica just isn't a thing. I leveled WHM on my alt almost to Praetorium and I honestly can't recall ever using Medica-- certainly not before Stone Vigil. Nonetheless, this isn't difficult to pick up just by reading.

Then you could have done better. Again, that's the purpose of a learning curve. If you wait for Medica to be mandatory to accustom yourself to use it, it's a bit late.

And that audience isn't going to be effected. I'm similar, actually. I basically quit the MMO genre for years because the stories bored me. FFXIV's made things interesting and I love it for that. But, if someone else only wants to play for raids. I, frankly, couldn't care less. They'll skip the story regardless. Might as well let Square make money off them.

Perhaps, but that's not the kind of game FFXIV is. The audience wants a lore and story focused MMO, so FFXIV a lore and story focused MMO. If it throws that away, it loses part of its identity. What will it lose after that ?