Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To be honest though, if a series of actions all perform a single decision/action, why spend 3-4 buttons on it?

Because, at least for me, consolidating an entire combo into a single button would result in fundamentally boring combat. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post, but do you mean to advocate Dragoon's Full Thrust or Chaos Thrust combo should be reduced to one button? If so, I would seriously have to consider whether I'd continue playing. This would reduce the entire rotation to basically five or six buttons. Having to press multiple buttons and weave oGCDs into the rotation is what makes an otherwise simplistic combat system fun. It feels good to press those 3-4 buttons. Pressing just one or two may work for action combat because the enjoyment comes from reacting to the unpredictability, but for tab-targeting, I think the opposite is the case. It just becomes boring.

[rainichan]

From my understanding of the info it wasn't so much getting rid of stuff, but more like merging actions into traits, or merging the less used actions into other actions that ARE used as a bonus effect. They said we'd be getting new skills from 60-70 and that would cause an abundance of skill bloat which was already an issue in HW. So merging Featherfoot into, say, the stance change for Monk or even a skill used while in Fists of Wind or something will cut down on what's on a bar. I don't think they'd outright get rid of the actions, just merge them into others.

[ArikDimas]

snip

I think Shurrikhan means to condense it like the 1st weapon skill for melee weapons in Guild Wars 2, where after using the first part of the combo, it turns into the 2nd, and using that turns into the 3rd.

[Snow_Princess]

Another reason I would object to such a thing is that, for some classes, previous spells are very involved with the current style of play. Try taking away a Black Mage's fire 1 and see how much of a twist they get into. With no fire 1, no fire starter, and it's harder to keep Astral Fire 3 refreshed during Enochian for optimal DPS. And, if I recall correctly, White Mages casting cure 2 can see benefits in cure 3's cast time and speed. How about the combos that tanks possess? A gladiator starts with fast slash and is just mindlessly bashing critters, then they get savage blade, learning about aggro, and then Rage of Halone, learning about how important debuffs are to damage mitigation. Every step was necessary to master before understanding the next. The point of all this is, if you're operating on the criteria of unused and ineffective actions, you're going to swiftly find out that there are very few of them in this game. It's not nearly as broken as what some people may say. I understand that a significant chunk of FF14's player base plays on consoles, and, rather than limit this wonderful game for the sake of the limitations of a controller, maybe we should just implement macro tutorials and show them how to make the most of what button real estate they have available to them? Just like everything else I've touched on in my little essay here, it's just another skill to be mastered.

All they had to do was add "improved thunder" trait for 22 and and 46, that should been done from the start of things as it is annoying to have all 3 set just because of changing level caps. For echo I pray to god they overhaul that,from server ticks with MP regen, and vanishing bosses that vanish just at the correct time to make it drop etc is very annoying.

I really do not see them changing fire I, fire III and fire starter procs because that would change the job completely for all levels. I think this comment is a grave over reaction to what they mean.

We do no spam Cure II for cure III, we spam cure I for free Cure II. Speaking of cure III, that would be a good spell to look at when it comes to changing/removing/adding some trail at 61+ to make it worthwhile using. You use cure III like.. 1%? of the time?

~~~Momo

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I think Shurrikhan means to condense it like the 1st weapon skill for melee weapons in Guild Wars 2, where after using the first part of the combo, it turns into the 2nd, and using that turns into the 3rd.

If that is the case, I still don't know how I feel about it. Certainly a better option to the alternative, but it does mean pressing a single button even if the animations are different. I suppose it depends on what other abilities we get to tie into everything. This could work, provided there we more combos or ways to connect abilities. Admittedly, if new abilities in Stormblood made it so we actually had to choose between say, Chaos Thrust and some other skill. That would make combat less muscle memory and more strategic.

[Shurrikhan]

Because, at least for me, consolidating an entire combo into a single button would result in fundamentally boring combat. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post, but do you mean to advocate Dragoon's Full Thrust or Chaos Thrust combo should be reduced to one button? If so, I would seriously have to consider whether I'd continue playing. This would reduce the entire rotation to basically five or six buttons. Having to press multiple buttons and weave oGCDs into the rotation is what makes an otherwise simplistic combat system fun. It feels good to press those 3-4 buttons. Pressing just one or two may work for action combat because the enjoyment comes from reacting to the unpredictability, but for tab-targeting, I think the opposite is the case. It just becomes boring.

Since I did say I'd prefer that each combo step had inherent value instead, there's probably some level of misinterpretation. I should have been clearer.

My point was that the combat we have right now is ALREADY only 4 Dragoon weaponskills (CT+1, FT+1, Phb, HT), because there's no use of any combo opener or bridge separable from its finisher.
That means you are hitting the same ability multiple times as is, just with different binds. You can't get more "button bloat-y" than that.

So if that's all the complexity we're going to ever get out of the combo, why not create a single dynamic bind for each? After using True Thrust, the slot advances to Vorpal Thrust, and so forth.
Consolidate F&C and WT to the 4th step of either combo. If the buff is "Fang" you strike from the back to gain the 90 potency and the WT animation is used. If the strike is "Claw" you strike from the back and the F&C animation is used. At level 56, you can only get 200 potency out of the attack. 58 adds the RNG and associated bonus damage component, so it's an actual buff. : o

In exchange, we get 6 more slots of space for actual ability choices.

Or, make clipped combo variants or the individual combo-able abilities actually usable (on their own), and actually differentiate WT from F&C. Either way. Just don't waste 6 whole buttons on mandatory links.

[Duelle]

Couldn't have said it better myself. People can say all day long that it was a content drought that brought WoW's declining popularity, but if you look at the sub count graphs, you'll see that subscribers started to drop off LONG before that was an issue, even before Mists of Pandaria was dropped. It was around when Blizzard removed the talent trees, basically slapping everyone who spent hours agonizing over the most efficient spec in the face and laughing at how much time they wasted.

You mean the tons of people that opened their web browser, typed thotbot/maxdps/elitistjerks.com and looked up what was the best talent set up for every spec? Yeah that was so much work. /s

The sub drop came from a combination of things. PvP was an outright mess through most of Cataclysm. The fact several classes were changed for the worse didn't help. On top of that, endgame, AKA the thing that Wrath had introduced a LOT of people to, was a lot harder to get into and progression/gearing up took longer because of how content was tuned (which in turn led to insular player behavior which meant a lot of people hit a progression wall). LFR and the catch-ups introduced with the final patch of the expansion helped a bit, but that didn't do much due to Dragon Soul being lackluster. Only then we can include the folks that did not like the talent changes leading into MoP.

As for the change to the talent system itself, most people who complained didn't understand why the change was made. The talent system was a load of false choices and had been like that since the first change made to it leading into TBC. And some wanted their false choices solely for the illusion of progression over a system that offered slightly more variety but with less pushes of a button. The complaints were no different than if people complained that instead of getting served mud sandwiches like they had been for 4 years, their sandwiches now have ham and lettuce and actually edible things in them. Sure, WoW's devs eventually took that system in a stupid direction (entirely killing the consequence from picking talents by making talents easily swapable), but the intent behind the change was solid.

They are called expansions for a reason, and if your character that you've spent hundreds of hours on, is made lesser not through any triumph of evil, but because the powers that be have declared a play style that you've come to cherish as "too complicated" for people who aren't going to dodge that AoE no matter how simple the game is for them, no amount of shiny baubles is going to fix that feeling of "used to be able to do that cool thing, but now you can't because reasons"

This assumes everyone loves the changes and job growth going into Heavensward, which is not the case. Sure, some have taken to the new systems, while others simply adjusted and tough it out.

[ErikMynhier]

I kind of hope it will be like the pvp set of skills. Some exclusive unique skills for each job, with a general list of bread and butter skills for everyone in your roll to use.

[ADVSS]

thatd be the nail in the coffin for tank role altogether. gw2 oversimplification "combo" system was something that made me feel more like i was watching a quick time event, pushing the same button to proc this games equivalent to ability cooldowns, whether i needed to heal the party or not, there it goes! i kind of hope they keep tanks with their branching combos the gameplay is already pretty stagnant, since you just stand there whacking the boss, and popping a cooldown whenever you see that big bar show up. if they do this, and attatch cd like rampart to an attack like rage of halone, i think id be done.

[Pondera]

You mean the tons of people that opened their web browser, typed thotbot/maxdps/elitistjerks.com and looked up what was the best talent set up for every spec? Yeah that was so much work. /s

I personally never did that. I did things the old fashioned way, and experimented and figured it out. It's the kind of thing that people seem to be averse to these days. Instead of learning fights, taking your licks and figuring out how to do better next time, I guess we can just whine at developers until they simplify things to the point that, as ADVSS put it, it's more like a quick time event than dungeon running.

And besides, there were still those unique individuals who would spec into talents that others would say are not viable for high level raiding. Was it non-viable and possibly a waste? Maybe, but by oversimplification, one is denied that chance to experiment. MMORPGs are all about growth, be it character development, the relentless hunt for higher stats, or understanding and mastery of your own abilities. If people want to have a 3 button rotation with 1 buff and an "ultimate", I would suggest they go play a MOBA instead. They can take two words from me with them on their way out the door and they are not "happy birthday"