Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Lewtskie]

It's simple really. This is not an MMO with a Final Fantasy aspect. This is a Final Fantasy with an MMO aspect. The fact that 80% of content is done mostly solo is pretty much evidence it's an RPG first, multiplayer second.

Other way around. Roughly 3/4 of this game hinges on you doing something with other people to progress. The selection of actual content that can be dedicated to a solo experience is much more limited.

FATEs, Leves, and PotD can be solo'd to an extent, depending on what you are playing. Crafting/Gathering is an obvious given, but even when making things in a workshop you're required to have people stand there before you can finish a project. You may be able to enter into queues by yourself but you're joining a group of people to complete an objective.

Sure the story exists as solo content... that lasts about a couple hours a patch. The story will always be important to understanding character, places, and events, but it's not the ultimate focus here, that's clear as day. If it were we'd get an expansive chapter every patch that would span hours with dialogue and cutscenes and events. It would require you to do the story every patch to do every other thing because that story is the actual driving point; both dungeons, were there still to be two, would both be part of the story. Even raids would possibly be harder tied to the story. But we don't and it doesn't, so it isn't the biggest part of this game.

[Talraen]

Other way around. Roughly 3/4 of this game hinges on you doing something with other people to progress.

Just pointing out that if this were true, this thread wouldn't exist.

[Lewtskie]

Just pointing out that if this were true, this thread wouldn't exist.

Again, you have it backwards. It's because it's true that this thread and others like it exist. The game's main point is playing together with other people. Being bogged down too long from a backlog of quests only serves as a hindrance to players who want to pow around with their buddies in relevant content.

[Reynhart]

relevant content.

When you're a new player, everything is relevant content. Again...
When you're doing content for the first time, it is always relevant.

It's not as if the MSQ would ask you to grind this content over and over everyday, that would be stupid and boring...which is exactly what "doing your roulettes at max level every day to gain tomestones" is !

[Kosmos992k]

When you're a new player, everything is relevant content. Again...
When you're doing content for the first time, it is always relevant.

It's not as if the MSQ would ask you to grind this content over and over everyday, that would be stupid and boring...which is exactly what "doing your roulettes at max level every day to gain tomestones" is !

Yes, the key point here is that the entire MSQ is a run once quest line - and so everything you do in the quest-line is relevant. As you sai, it's all relevant the 1st time you run it, and to complete the MSQ, you do not need to re-run anything. You don't go back to Cape Westwind 50 times in a day for anything. The entire MSQ is progression, you are progressing through both the story and at the same time leveling one or more jobs/classes.

If I want to play with friends and have a good time then the content itself isn't what's relevant, it's the time I spend with my friends.

Example, Aquapolis. I spend a few hours getting FC people and friends together and do it for an afternoon or evening. I pass on every single drop, I don't need anything from there. I do it because they need it and it's fun to do as a group.

Exactly, this is why I get so frustrated when people talk about needing to skip the MSQ because new players don't want to run through it all alone, and so they won't do it. Why are they alone? Shouldn't someone in their FC have offered to help them, or other befriend them and work on it together...this being an MMORPG you'd hope that at least FC mates could be depended on - within the limits of their time obviously.

[Lewtskie]

Exactly, this is why I get so frustrated when people talk about needing to skip the MSQ because new players don't want to run through it all alone, and so they won't do it. Why are they alone? Shouldn't someone in their FC have offered to help them, or other befriend them and work on it together...this being an MMORPG you'd hope that at least FC mates could be depended on - within the limits of their time obviously.

I used to be too dependent on people when I first started, mostly because I wanted to have someone run through shit with me. And there were a few who were always happy to, some willingly put time in to help or join in for company. But eventually did I realize that was putting a burden on others. They wouldn't object to any request out of kindness, but it was clear they had things they were doing and wanted to do themselves. So I don't ever want anyone I know to ever feel obligated to put aside their time. If they are all for it, all the better, but otherwise to each their own until interests coincide.

No it wouldn't actually.

If this was a game that was designed to press story above all else, than things would probably be different. Changes were made to SoF due to the "difficulty" because it was barring players. It was a gate in the story that proved to tall for some. I feel were it the case where story carried more weight than anything else than nothing would have been changed as the impact of the fight, and in turn the story, would be reduced; if story took such precedence then that would be counterproductive to the focus.

[Kosmos992k]

I used to be too dependent on people when I first started, mostly because I wanted to have someone run through shit with me. And there were a few who were always happy to, some willingly put time in to help or join in for company. But eventually did I realize that was putting a burden on others. They wouldn't object to any request out of kindness, but it was clear they had things they were doing and wanted to do themselves. So I don't ever want anyone I know to ever feel obligated to put aside their time. If they are all for it, all the better, but otherwise to each their own until interests coincide.

I totally understand that, from both sides of the issue. But, consider this, those people still helped you and helped you progress until you realized that the training wheels could come off - in terms of figuring out you don't really need them to be there, and that they took time of their own and spent it helping you. So, now you have come through that, completed the story and are playing at 60, you play with many of those same people? It was an investment of their time to bring another person along into their group.

Pay it forward and help someone the way you were helped. You might find that it doesn't really feel like a burden, and it feels good when that new player breaks free and becomes a part of the team in their own right.

This applies to everyone, not specifically you, though I am replying to you. Of course not everyone feels the same way, I just wish more people did.

[Chalbee]

When you're a new player, everything is relevant content. Again...
When you're doing content for the first time, it is always relevant.

That's like saying if someone bought you a typewriter, it would be relevant technology since it's new to you. We know damn well that everyone is working on computers or tablets now, why are we making all the new players start out with a typewriter stick with a typewriter for so long?

[Neophyte]

When you're a new player, everything is relevant content. Again...
When you're doing content for the first time, it is always relevant.

It's not as if the MSQ would ask you to grind this content over and over everyday, that would be stupid and boring...which is exactly what "doing your roulettes at max level every day to gain tomestones" is !

And still 75% of all content with story is actually optional in regards reaching new expansion area.
Optional content with actual story in this game:
All side quests, PotD, ex primals (yes, they have interesting story, too), other trials (Odin, Hildibrand, Triad), half of all dungeons, fates, beast tribe quests, relic, even class/job quests, most GC related stuff and PvP, normal/savage/24-man raids (Coil+CT+Alex+Mhach story), levequests and guildheists, goldsaucer ('mandatory' story content in FF7, why not here? They could have made it so, that you have to visit Goldsaucer in HW MSQ to get a toy for some moogles. Missed opportunity?),....

Why are all those things allowed to be optional, but MSQ isn't? Are their story less worth it? Are they less important to learn the game? Are they in any way less important?

Usually in FF games it's 75% mandatory and only max. 25% optional story content.
Why did they do it the other way round here, when 'this is a FF game' comes first, 'this game is for people who love stories' comes second, while 'this is a MMORPG' isn't even considered by some of you.
There sure was never a FF game which demands me to lvl up my characters just to be able to talk to a specific NPC.. I have to be lvl 36 to do this fetch quest without a single fight involved? In a story-driven game? Why?

Why are MSQ stories gated behind lvl and ilvl (there are gaps 3-4 lvls between some MSQ)? Dungeons could have a story version to be able to solo them with lower than intended level. Would that be good? In terms of story quality: Yes, especially because the MSQ treats you as a lone wolf anyway.

When everything is new and fresh, why do you bother where someone starts? Why do you expect them to spam dungeon grind anytime soon, when there are so many different things to work on starting at 50 in HW area with ilvl 100-115 NQ.
ARR MSQ would still be at least a very long quest which could be helpful to lvl up one or two classes (but with armory bonus and actualy new released jobs) and therefore likely done by most of he players.. just not necessarily at first. It's importance only shrinks to the importance of every other same worth story content (i.e. all content).

Kurogaea nailed it: Be open-minded, not narrow-minded.

[Reynhart]

Why are all those things allowed to be optional, but MSQ isn't? Are their story less worth it? Are they less important to learn the game? Are they in any way less important?

I really feel like repeating myself over and over there...Why are they optionnal ? Because they're too challenging to force everyone to do them. Would you complain that doing the MSQ is too...challenging ?

And you're still taking it backwards. It's not that "those stories are optionnal duties so the game is not story based", but that "even optionnal duties have stories attached to them because the game put emphasis on stories". In a not-story based game, those duties would simply be "Go there, crawl".

Usually in FF games it's 75% mandatory and only max. 25% optional story content.

Yes...if you haven't played any FF after IX...did you try X with the training camp ? XII with the Hunts ? XIII and XIII-2 with the achievements ?

People are flipping their heads over a simple option when it isn't hurting the game, if anything its actually helping.

No, it fact, it is hurting the game. If you give options to skip a whole bunch of content, the Dev-Team won't make the same efforts to design them with lore and stories. And you'll have more and more complains about the lack of content. When a game is young, having little content is understandable. But, if a new player comes on the 4th expansion, and burn anything relevant in a month, of course he'll be pissed by having nothing else to do than dumb grinding. We've said before that the MSQ is relevant on itself, that first time run in dungeons are relevant. Adding a skip potion is an official way of saying "No, it is not relevant anymore".

In fact, it's like adding powerful items in the cash-shop. It would only be an option for some people, after all, and wouldn't change what you like in the game. But you bet it would destroy the community and the game.