Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Ziegsy]

In the end this is a STORY BASED GAME. Unlike wow where the story could be skipped. The team put in alot of effort on crafting the world and the naritive, asking to 'Just skip it' is not only rude and offensive it defeats the point of the game.

[Neophyte]

In the end this is a STORY BASED GAME. Unlike wow where the story could be skipped. The team put in alot of effort on crafting the world andthe naritive, asking to 'Just skip it' is not only rude and offensive it defeats the point of the game.

That debate started with an interview of Yoshi-P... He and this team are considering this while looking on the actual numbers (of idk what). So that's the person to blame for being rude to the developers.

In the end FF14 is a currency-focussed weekly grind MMORPG with focus on combat (that's what 95% of all your playtime will be about).
Same for single player FF games... do you know how much of actually fighting/grinding those games include?
For example in BG2 it's the other way round: You get most your XP of quests (not fighting monsters), "best" gear doesn't involve grinds or mini-games, you have actually dialogue options (rare in FF series), you can clear the game with much or not that much fighting. There is not a single grind involved. There is not a single quest I would consider a standardized "fetch quests" or "bounty quest", like those repetive quests in FF14.
Most of your time is most likely reading stuff (you have more books filled with lore than the entire lore of FF14, FF7, FF8 and FF9 combined) . That is a story/narrative game (which still gets chided for being to action-oriented xD)
Just because many FF games share the same plot schemes, doesn't make the games of this brand more story-driven than any other RPG, like Witcher, BG, PS:T, Vampire, Fallout 1/2, etc... Period.
Do I speak with people here, who only played FF RPGs or what? Seems so.
You seem not to know, but let me share a secret with you: Most single player RPGs, regardless of western or asian ones and unless considered as Action-RPGs (like Diablo series) are "story-driven". jRPGs (like FF) are likely more grind-focussed, that's the difference.

If FF14 was a story-centered game, shouldn't most players stop after finishing the current story and then come again for the next patch for about 2 days? Item level grind is not needed for story in any way. Soooo, if the absolute main point is the story, shouldn't there be a much bigger player loss every 1-2 weeks after every patch?
There seems to be enough enjoyment even when there are 3+ more months without any new story to stay in this game.
How is it possible for the story to be the main point of FF14, when the story isn't the specific thing which actually make people sub longer than 1-2 days per patch?

As you see.. with people mostly or only caring for story alone this game would be already dead. Period. There is no need to sub more than 1 month per patch, if you consider the plot as the main point of this game. If you stay longer you either shift the main point to other things for about 3 months, because there is no story anymore or you stop your sub. The main point of any game simply can't be something, which you enjoy only less than 20% of your play time. Is that really too hard to grasp?

[Talraen]

If FF14 was a story-centered game, shouldn't most players stop after finishing the current story and then come again for the next patch for about 2 days? Item level grind is not needed for story in any way. Soooo, if the absolute main point is the story, shouldn't there be a much bigger player loss every 1-2 weeks after every patch?
There seems to be enough enjoyment even when there are 3+ more months without any new story to stay in this game.
How is it possible for the story to be the main point of FF14, when the story isn't the specific thing which actually make people sub longer than 1-2 days per patch?

The average player doesn't finish all story content within 1-2 days of the patch. And even if you did, you're going to need to gear up to be able to even qualify for the content of the next patch if you do. And that's just MSQ stuff like Xelphatol - if you actually want to do all the available story, you need to finish Alex standard, not to mention the beast tribe quests which take a month at minimum.

I don't actually think most people play for story, but you absolutely can spend a lot of time doing peripheral stuff if all you care about is the story, because you need to in order to keep up. If 80% of your play time is to ensure that you can spend that other 20% on story, you're playing for story. Which should not be, as you put it, "too hard to grasp."

[Neophyte]

The average player doesn't finish all story content within 1-2 days of the patch. And even if you did, you're going to need to gear up to be able to even qualify for the content of the next patch if you do. And that's just MSQ stuff like Xelphatol - if you actually want to do all the available story, you need to finish Alex standard, not to mention the beast tribe quests which take a month at minimum.

I don't actually think most people play for story, but you absolutely can spend a lot of time doing peripheral stuff if all you care about is the story, because you need to in order to keep up. If 80% of your play time is to ensure that you can spend that other 20% on story, you're playing for story. Which should not be, as you put it, "too hard to grasp."

That's a total overestimation of the time (which is pretty funny, since other people coming from your side totally underestimate the time for doing the actual MSQ: Reynard thought it can be around 40h... I'm still laughing).
For once, if you only care for story, you don't have to gear more than one character. The other thing is, e.g. for the story of this patch ilvl 210(!!!) was enough, 220 and 230 if you want to also do the raid and new trial. We are not talking about ex dungeons and savage. You can become ilvl230 within a few days, since that's the lvl of the uncapped tomes now, also PotD, also crafted gear, etc.
There is a point in that beast tribe quests though, because that's the only story which is time-gated. But that's the only thing left. Everything else needs way less than 1 month, if you play average 1-2h a day.

A player only caring for story needs to gear up a few days (heck, make it 2 weeks if you want), can do the MSQ story while doing that, do the "high" ilvl ones and unsub again.
5 times lvl 60 roulette and ex roulette and you're most likely 230, if started with 210 in 3.4 (which is the cap of more than one patch before this). That's a fact.
A player only caring for story but thinking that it's a good idea to do the gearing process for the next patch waaaaaaay before the actual next patch hits (where the effort/time commitment is reduced to 10%) is kinda not smart. That's also a fact.

Also you can just ask nicely in PF, since there are no ilvl requirements with a full group and carrying someone through Sophia HM for bonus or even Alexander9-12 for story reasons is something I would do. I'm a bonus whore.

5 times lvl 60 roulette and 5 times ex roulette is 80% of your playtime? As I said, with only such kind of players the game would be already dead.

[Talraen]

That's a total overestimation of the time (which is pretty funny, since other people coming from your side totally underestimate the time for doing the actual MSQ: Reynard thought it can be around 40h... I'm still laughing).
For once, if you only care for story, you don't have to gear more than one character. The other thing is, e.g. for the story of this patch ilvl 210(!!!) was enough, 220 and 230 if you want to also do the raid and new trial. We are not talking about ex dungeons and savage. You can become ilvl230 within a few days, since that's the lvl of the uncapped tomes now, also PotD, also crafted gear, etc.
There is a point in that beast tribe quests though, because that's the only story which is time-gated. But that's the only thing left.

A player only caring for story needs to gear up a few days (heck, make it 2 weeks if you want), can do the MSQ story while doing that, do the "high" ilvl ones and unsub again. 5 times lvl 60 roulette and ex roulette and you're most likely 230, if started with 210 in 3.4 (which is the cap of more than one patch before this). That's a fact. A player only caring for story but thinking that it's a good idea to do the gearing process for the next patch waaaaaaay before the actual next patch hits (where the effort/time commitment is reduced to 10%), ist stupid. That's also a fact.

5 times lvl 60 roulette and 5 times ex roulette is 80% of your playtime? As I said, with only such kind of players the game would be already dead.

I don't think you understand the mindset of people who play for story. It's not about doing everything as quickly and efficiently as possible. There's no rush to complete the content, because the content is the point, not a prerequisite for the rest of the game. And you're ignoring content that takes a long time by its gated nature, like the beast tribe quests I mentioned earlier, or squadrons. Or leveling other classes (for their stories).

[Neophyte]

I don't think you understand the mindset of people who play for story. It's not about doing everything as quickly and efficiently as possible.
There's no rush to complete the content, because the content is the point, not a prerequisite for the rest of the game. And you're ignoring content that takes a long time by its gated nature, like the beast tribe quests I mentioned earlier, or squadrons. Or leveling other classes (for their stories).

I was talking about the minimum a player only caring for story has to do to be able to actually enjoy the story. I'm not talking about specific player-related preferences, like how much time they want to let pass between 2 main scenario quests.

The claim was: FF is a story driven game, the story is the main focus. My claim therefore is: There should be a big crowd of people who actually only want to do the story and reduce the rest as much as possible, which is actually a thing SE caters to (able to catch up to required ilvl for MSQ within 2 weeks max). Where is this crowd?

As I said, beast tribes are a thing... squadrons, well you only need 1 month to get to the last "story" mission. And really if you want to count Squadrons to FF14 "story" then we might have to talk about the quality of FF14 "story", because that's sure not a flagship in that regards.

[Welsper59]

I was talking about the minimum a player only caring for story has to do to be able to actually enjoy the story. I'm not talking about specific player-related preferences, like how much time they want to let pass between 2 main scenario quests.

The claim was: FF is a story driven game, the story is the main focus. My claim therefore is: There should be a big crowd of people who actually only want to do the story and reduce the rest as much as possible, which is actually a thing SE caters to (able to catch up to required ilvl for MSQ within 2 weeks max). Where is this crowd?

As I said, beast tribes are a thing... squadrons, well you only need 1 month to get to the last "story" mission. And really if you want to count Squadrons to FF14 "story" then we might have to talk about the quality of FF14 "story", because that's sure not a flagship in that regards.

You do realize that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing, right? Like, they can still make aspects of the game be story focused without removing the grind. That's the beauty of creativity. You don't have to say that everything needs to be only one way. If they want FFXIV to be story driven for access (which it is), then that's that. Think about all the dungeons or areas you can only unlock through MSQ, your job abilities, job access, etc. That's quite a significant amount of content and functionality that is locked behind story, even if you may not spend long doing it.

[Talraen]

I was talking about the minimum a player only caring for story has to do to be able to actually enjoy the story. I'm not talking about specific player-related preferences, like how much time they want to let pass between 2 main scenario quests.

The claim was: FF is a story driven game, the story is the main focus. My claim therefore is: There should be a big crowd of people who actually only want to do the story and reduce the rest as much as possible, which is actually a thing SE caters to (able to catch up to required ilvl for MSQ within 2 weeks max). Where is this crowd?

Again, I think you're applying a mindset that doesn't apply to many story-driven gamers. Who says if you care about story you want to "reduce the rest" of the game? It's about the journey, not the destination.

[AlexionSkylark]

The average player doesn't finish all story content within 1-2 days of the patch.

I take around 1 to 2 weeks to finish all the story content within a patch (MSQ, the Mhach Storyline and/or Alexander, plus the small stories about the new dungeons, depening on the patch)

[Reynhart]

If FF14 was a story-centered game, shouldn't most players stop after finishing the current story and then come again for the next patch for about 2 days?

There's a thing called item level requirement and sidestories access.
Like needing i175 to access Void Ark, where doing only the 3.0 MSQ would leave you below 160, i180 to access Antitower, i200 to Sohr Khai, i210 to Xelphatol, i220 to Sophia...

There is no need to sub more than 1 month per patch, if you consider the plot as the main point of this game

Hmm, this is strange because it's close to what people complain about, and on par with Yoshi-P encouraging player to play something else and coming back from the next patch.
So maybe this is closer to his view of the game than you think.

And of course, no one complained about the story behind Alexander since this game is not to be story-centered, right ?

The claim was: FF is a story driven game, the story is the main focus. My claim therefore is: There should be a big crowd of people who actually only want to do the story and reduce the rest as much as possible, which is actually a thing SE caters to (able to catch up to required ilvl for MSQ within 2 weeks max). Where is this crowd?

This crowd gave us Alex normal mode, in case you forgot...

Again, even if ARR content wasn't required to start in those areas you'd still need them to level up, I'll reiterate for the 4th time. If BS starts out at level 30 with all areas scaled to level 60, new players have no way of attempting that content for 30 levels, making ARR content their only accessible content until 60.

First, we're talking about ARR content not being required but still fully available, second, please stop calling the next expansion BS, since it's StormBlood, and third, it would still take you only a few days to gain access to HW with the optional ARR content to rush from level 30 to 50, then, at best, 2 weeks to clear 3.0. So, without ARR story being mandatory, you could have started HW and burned every relevant content in a mere month.
Great way to keep someone interested after advertising a game and its expansion.