With Eve gone, only sub based MMOs left are FFXIV and WoW

[Kosmos992k]

what I mean by locked out is this:

I buy ARR for 60 bucks.

I can't play ARR unless I pay an additional 15 bucks every month. despite the fact that I purchased the game, for full price.

And? Your $60 includes 30 days of server time, plenty of time to complete the MSQ, and beat the game you paid for.

Bottom line, imo - if I buy your game, the act of me paying you money to buy your game, should give me access to the game, with no other strings attached.

That's exactly what you got, that 30 days let's you do just that, if you want them to continue to provide you with the service of their servers, time to subscribe. the game and the service are separate products.

If you want me to pay you MORE money, then you should to give me something worth purchasing.

Servers, patches, additional content without additional charges. Is that not enough? You didn't pay for 3.1-3.5 with your purchase of 3.0.

It should be "Thanks for spending 60 bucks on our game! If you pay us an additional 15 bucks a month, you'll get these additional benefits."

which is exactly what it is. The box tells you that you need a subscription to the FFXIV service, and that you get 30 days free with your initial purchase of the game. Paying that subscription let's you create multiple characters on multiple worlds and access all patch content not on the disc you're holding up as a trophy.

not "if you don't pay us 15 bucks a month, then we'll take away your access to the game and the 60 dollars you spent for it is now wasted."

They take away access to the servers, it's a multi-player online game, what did you expect them to do? It's not like they wipe your character, inventory or retainers, with the single exception of the personal housing which wipes after 45 days, everything you have is preserved until you re-sub. Storage costs money my friend. As does server and network infrastructure, maintenance, software bug fixing, additional content development and of course expansions.

I kinda don't understand how that doesn't make sense. and I will always beat that drum. I only like subscriptions if it is a CHOICE, and not a RANSOM.

Then you should probably not play this if you consider it ransom. The game is a product, the service is a product. You pay for the game you get to play it, you want to play for longer and have access to the latest fixes and content, you pay your sub. It's not a solo, offline game, you know this when you buy it. The box tells you you'll need a subscription.

Making games isn't cheap, maintaining servers and networks isn't a cheap exercise, and continually patching the game for bugs and new content is certainly not inexpensive - especially when it's done simultaneously with working on the next expansion. If you don't understand these things, then perhaps you're just not cut out for this.

[Ayuhra]

The Elder Scrolls Online you do not need a sub for but I like subbing to it when I feel like playing because I like supporting what that game is trying to do. It also has an intriguing monetization system where if you sub you never have to spend extra cash on the game shop. Anything you buy there is purchased with crowns (including things like character services) and you can get a monthly allotment of crowns with the sub. *IF* FFXIV had to go free to play (which it won't) it would be nice if it did something similar.

[Kosmos992k]

same. really hope that subscription stays despite the trend shift to buy to play or free to play (w/ cash shop) being the norm for mmos nowadays. i would hate to see the servers get flooded with the toxic f2p crowd and whiners

Well, Yoshi has actually found a way to do a sub game that in a way mimics other models. With the patch cycle there is a group of players that subs for the new patch, and then after 30-60 days drops out until the next patch. But since they will come back for the new patch, they are not lost to the game, and as long as they are back in time for their housing timer, no one loses anything. Including the game not losing subscribers in the long run, even if the number of continuous subscriptions falls a little, the actual number of players can remain constant. I mean Yoshi basically said that's fine and really he thinks that is a valid way for FFXIV customers to behave. But the nice thing is that there is no possibility of the pitfalls of other business models because the game is at it's heart still a subscription mode with zero pay to win.

Honestly I see almost no difference between B2P and F2P. Both have an inherent flaw. The last game I played online before FFXIV was White Knight Chronicles on PS3. It actually had a very effective multi-player online play mode. But it was a B2P model, you could play online for free after buying the game. But they had a zillion little extras that you could spend a small fortune on without realizing. XP tickets, drop rate enhancement tickets, and so on, plus costumes and some gear. Ultimately the game was killed after less than 2 years of activity because there was no money in it, and the monthly transactions did not pay the costs sufficiently for anyone involved to see it as worth while. This is the fate of many, if not most B2P and F2P games. They all go down the route of micro-transactions, pay shops, milking the whales and eventually fading to nothing. I definitely do not want to see FFXIV go down that route.

The Elder Scrolls Online you do not need a sub for but I like subbing to it when I feel like playing because I like supporting what that game is trying to do. It also has an intriguing monetization system where if you sub you never have to spend extra cash on the game shop. Anything you buy there is purchased with crowns (including things like character services) and you can get a monthly allotment of crowns with the sub. *IF* FFXIV had to go free to play (which it won't) it would be nice if it did something similar.

The trouble is, that once you go F2P or B2P, there is no going back. When you drop the subscription, you cannot re-instate it. So long term, your game can easily start fading. When player numbers start to go downhill, it can be a snowball effect and a painful crash at the bottom of the hill.

[Zhamkyong]

Well, what can I say. I love MMOs and this is the arguably the best one out there right now. so I pay the ransom.

I'm not asking for sympathy. there is nothing to be sympathetic about. SE is gonna do what SE wants to do. and at the end of the day, it is just 15 bucks and it's not like i can't afford it.

However, this doesn't mean I'm just gonna shut up and not express my preferences whenever the subject of MMO payment models comes up in discussion. and mine are B2P with Optional Subscription. Also, I'm not in here creating threads about it demanding that they change or don't change the payment model either. just responding to comments.

Do you want a F2P game with loads of things that we actually have in the Mogstore? Because that's how you are going to get them.

I can understand your liking for a B2P or F2P model of gaming "buy our game and play it when you want without paying anything more!" it's a very tempting message. You said it yourself, for you this is the arguably the best one out. It's not perfect, mind you, but if it is what it is for you it's because of the Sub model it has right now. From a personal experience: My MMO days started from FFXI, there i had to move to other f2p because at the time i didnt had 2 things: Money and spare time for the game. So i played what i could and i moved to one from another. There were good experiences, some were bad. At the end of the day the majority of f2p or b2p games with no sub ended being the same molk cash cow... until i came to FFXIV in 2.0.

From that personal experience i hope they dont change theyr mind and keep it with a sub fee. It keeps the game fueled for future expansions with the money we give to them, and the Mongstore only has things like mounts, glamour and a couple of things you can live without purchasing it. Also it keeps at bay a very toxic playerbase who you can find in the other games.

A MMORPG with a monthly sub it's away cheaper than the alternative, trust me.

Again, you have your opinion and i respect it, just give it a thougt.

[Ayuhra]

I think people get the wrong idea about B2P/F2P. Usually when a MMO does this it's because it's trying to adapt to the modern MMO economy. A lot of people simply do not want to pay a sub fee if NOT doing so is an option. F2P titles can also make a lot of money, trust me. A lot.

The problem is the genre of MMORPGs specifically does not fit this payment model too well. ESO is about the only game I've seen it do it in a non-obnoxious way and it manages by having an optional sub (ESO Plus) that grants you automatic access to everything in the cash shop for no more than the cost of your sub. Free users still have make initial payments for extra content and expansions (which still costs less than a sub would over time but I still prefer using a sub here).

The overwhelming majority of the time you feel like you are only getting partial access to the game and little things will flash and ping and try to get you to pay money. The worst monetization strategies let you buy power.

FFXIV could possibly find ways of having an unobtrusive monetization strategy but odds are it WOULD front load the cash shop... This is all a bit of a silly conversation anyway, though, to be honest. FFXIV may go completely buy to play someday but I doubt it'll be any time soon.

[SgtPepperUK]

I prefer sub just because I like know how much a game will cost, FFXIV has no nasty surprises waiting to push me to the cash shop, I pay my sub and that's it.

I may occasionally use the Mogstore but I can do this as and when I want to. It doesn't contain things that I need to continue in the game/access a certain part of the game and it's not time exclusive, so I might have an eye on a Mogstore cosmetic but wait until, say, Christmas to get it.

[Zhamkyong]

Snip

Yeah, ESO is nowdays surprisingly good if we compare to when it came out. Also i agree with you on the Sub/Shop model it has right now. But it's also one of very few in a sea of them. Old Republic without a sub it's very restrictive with what you can achieve, and you can end up paying a lot more for all the features than paying a sub directly for the time you decide to play. Blade and Soul started pretty well, but the comunity very toxic, and it's a model like "pay to advance". If someone doesnt want to have a grindfest it will pay loadshit of cash in the shop and turn it into game money. Guild Wars 2 went straight down into the mud...

My point is: A f2p/b2p game with no sub it's a very risk move if you dont do it well. You have to look for another way to gain the money to keep it alive and as someone mentioned before that can ruin your wallet, and you wont go back to the other payment model you had before.

[alimdia]

Servers, patches, additional content without additional charges. Is that not enough? You didn't pay for 3.1-3.5 with your purchase of 3.0.

Yes you do? Buying an expansion is buying everything in it, just that unlike WoW where you get nearly all content from the start, the devs stagger content so you don't run out of things to do.

If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.

3.0, nor 2.0 by themselves have enough content to be considered a full $60 game.

[Kosmos992k]

Yes you do? Buying an expansion is buying everything in it, just that unlike WoW where you get nearly all content from the start, the devs stagger content so you don't run out of things to do.

If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $15 per content update.

3.0, nor 2.0 by themselves have enough content to be considered a full $60 game.

No, both 2.0 and 3.0 contained a complete story, with the patches extending it and bridging the gap to the next expansion. Patches are included as part of the subscription. It's exactly like that in Business software. You buy the license up front and pay a substantial maintenance or service subscription. You get any new patches and updates to the application as part of that maintenance subscription, not the original purchase.

[alimdia]

No, both 2.0 and 3.0 contained a complete story, with the patches extending it and bridging the gap to the next expansion. Patches are included as part of the subscription. It's exactly like that in Business software. You buy the license up front and pay a substantial maintenance or service subscription. You get any new patches and updates to the application as part of that maintenance subscription, not the original purchase.

MMORPGs aren't a visual novel, there's more than story in a MMORPG, and you didn't address this

> If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.